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Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers

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In Griddlers we set a limit to the number of clues in one line. The Griddlers Workshop checks the clue lines, alerts and marks lines with more than 20 clues, and blocks from submitting puzzles with more than 25 clues. This length check improved the puzzles and added to the joy of solving.

In Triddlers we didn't set a limit. Now we consider adding a similar check. It can be:
  • The length of a clue line or -
  • The total size of the grid+clues (X*Y). This idea comes up because triddlers are not square, and at least one set of clue lines is diagonal.

If you are a triddler solver, please help us find the right conditions to make better triddlers. Share your thoughts and input in here.


Are the clue lines in the example below too long? What number of clues should one line have?



Is this triddler too big? What size (X*Y) should be the maximum?

For bigger images, open the attachments.

Thanks in advance!
Attachment

Attachment

Attachments: t_lines01.gif (91,1k), t_lines02.gif (48,8k)

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
25-08-09 11:13 as a reply to hagitm.
Limiting clues to 20 or 25 would work for me. I have a small monitor and really long clues are a bit annoying.

Corinna

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
25-08-09 11:33 as a reply to hagitm.
I think it's a great idea to introduce some sort of length/size check to triddlers as well.

Since the clues are at 3 sides, you will always have to do some "scrolling" while solving the big triddlers (unless you have a huge screen, or wear magnifying glasses). But I think the important thing is that you can see both the given clue and the place to put that clue at the same time.

Both ideas are good, although I'm not sure what would be a good limit. I guess it depends on how big your screen is (mine is 17"). For clue line length I'm thinking.. maybe 30 - at least for the diagonal clues, the horizontal one could still go up to 40 since the screen is larger in that direction... but maybe there should be only one length limit? I love how detailed triddlers can be, although I do get frustrated at all the scrolling sometimes.

I'm not sure I fully understand the second idea - in what "unit" would the size limit be in? And would that mean that a smaller triddle could have really long clue lines while the big ones have shorter?

Maybe a combination of both ideas would be the best!

More opinions please..

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
26-08-09 06:41 as a reply to hagitm.
For me, the clue lines of a Triddler are too long when the Triddler first comes up, and there isn't much of the puzzle area visible. I have a 17" screen, so that can happen quite easily with large puzzles. I'm not sure what the limit should be, but I think it should be based on the individual lines of clues and not a combination (as in x*y), since a Triddler could be oriented in either of two directions (vertical and diagonal or horizontal and diagonal lines).

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
26-08-09 16:50 as a reply to hagitm.
I think the clues per line should be limited to 30. 40 is excessive and annoying, but 20 - 25 might be too limiting.

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
26-08-09 17:08 as a reply to mariv.
The best thing would be to have at least a function to "cross out" clues that you already have, like in Griddlers. Better even, to have a magnifying tool!

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
27-08-09 09:28 as a reply to francy85.
I'm a bit ambivalent about this...

Too many clues do get very annoying, and having to count them all each and every time you want to put in a triangle can make me give up on a puzzle.
However, the results of a many-clue triddle can be magnificent!

So, would it perhaps be possible to introduce many-clues as a category? Then it's easily avoidable, but also easily accesible, if you suddenly find yourself at a big monitor. Probably not the most practical solution, I know, but would hate to miss out on some of those beauts...

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
27-08-09 14:07 as a reply to Cthulhu.
I forgot the other triddle direction with vertical clue lines, so forget about my longer-clue-line-on-one-side-suggestion - bad idea.

I would also LOVE the possibility to cross out clues!

Is there a way to check already submitted triddlers to see how long clue lines they have (besides counting them all)? 'Cause then it would be much easier to see where to put the clue line length limit. !!

I agree with Cthulhu that it's a fine line between possibly magnificant results, and annoying clue lines. Not convinced about the new category though, although that could be one way to handle it.

Have to say again that the possibility to cross out clues would make the longer lines so much less annoying, no matter their exact length.

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
28-08-09 21:39 as a reply to hagitm.
I.m not only a solver but an author too. And as long as there are no multitriddlers possible I sometimes need longer clueslines then I would have liked as a solver.
I really really really hope to have multitriddlers once!!
A big advantage would be to have (as in griddlers) the possibility to mark clues that are already done. That would make a long cluesline easier to deal with.
For an author though it would be good to have some comment when I validate my puzzle. I hate those long lines myself but I can not see the length of those lines when I send in a puzzle. I can imagine that it is sometimes possible to reduce the length without reducing the amount of points or (more important for me) the quality of the picture itself.
So: add to the validation a comment that the puzzle is solvable but has inconvenient clues-length in (and please specify) the X, Y or Z direction. When I see that, I will try to make that line shorter if possible. Please don't block the possibillity to send in that puzzle.
Because as long as there is no multitriddler-possibillity, there will always be the chance that you can only create that puzzle with long lines. Reducing it will sometimes mean ugly pictures. For me that will mean that I won't send it in.
Thus it may be a good idea to add another search-category for triddlers: the clues-line-length. If you hate those long long lines you can avoid them. And when you start a puzzle with long lines you wont have anything to complain about.

Grtz Fineke

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
30-08-09 08:21 as a reply to hagitm.
Natürlich werden die Puzzle unübersichtlich je grösser sie sind und je mehr Farben enthalten sind. Auch ich muss ständig hin und her scrollen und das erschwert grosse Rätsel erheblich. Allerdings kann ich auch die Ersteller verstehen, dass sie teilweise viel Platz brauchen. Meiner Meinung nach müsste das Lösungsprogramm verändert werden. Es wäre sicherlich machbar, dass man an den Seiten die erledigten Punkte abstreicht. Ausserdem würde es sehr helfen wenn die Punkte in den einzelnen Reihen angezeigt werden könnten.... siehe Conceptispuzzles.

My english is not very well, but I'll try it emoticon. Of cause, the puzzles get unclearly the larger they are and the more colors are contained. I've to scroll all the time and this makes it difficult. However I can understand also the creators that they partly need much place. In my opinion the solution program would have to be changed. It would be surely feasible that one scrapes the settled points off at the sides. In addition it would help much if the points in the individual rows to be indicated could.... like Conceptispuzzles.
(Translation by Babelfish)

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
01-09-09 19:04 as a reply to hagitm.
For me, well the bigger the better... I hate those made in a few seconds, It doesn´t matter hov many clues in a row, but it would be nice if we could have then crossed when done ;-)
Rengaw

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
24-11-09 04:33 as a reply to Corinna.
Corinna:
Limiting clues to 20 or 25 would work for me. I have a small monitor and really long clues are a bit annoying.

Corinna


I agree to the limit. I don't know how you can adjust your monitor's settings to see a larger puzzle. Like others have commented, if you can't see the clues while in the puzzle (or vice versa), it's too big. Especially those with lots of colors that you have to switch between. emoticon

RE: Triddler Size - We need your opinion as Solvers
Answer
27-11-09 13:25 as a reply to fineke.
I agree with Fineke. Give the creators the freedom to use the size they want. It is not a necessity to solve all trigglers (that must be a lie) and we can always skip those that are too long.
Edgar

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