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create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 2/27/06 9:02 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles Melizabeth 2/27/06 10:20 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 2/27/06 11:06 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 2/27/06 11:19 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles SvanteE 2/27/06 11:45 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles bilbobilbo 2/28/06 12:29 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles donbrovar 2/28/06 7:22 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles ildjarn 2/28/06 5:00 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles ildjarn 2/28/06 5:03 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles Melizabeth 2/28/06 5:55 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 2/28/06 8:03 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 2/28/06 8:06 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 2/28/06 8:09 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles ildjarn 2/28/06 8:54 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles ildjarn 2/28/06 8:55 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 3/1/06 12:16 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles fluffguf 6/2/06 12:06 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles powsinoga 6/11/06 11:32 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles wbennett 6/22/06 10:39 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 6/23/06 3:53 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles ildjarn 6/23/06 2:37 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles squarepusher 7/3/06 1:09 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 7/3/06 2:22 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles hagitm 7/3/06 3:44 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles ildjarn 7/5/06 6:32 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles squarepusher 7/8/06 9:33 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles fetofs 7/8/06 2:40 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles twoznia 7/23/06 7:33 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles FredTheYounger 7/29/06 2:18 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles ildjarn 7/29/06 8:58 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles Jeltje 7/29/06 9:49 AM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles squarepusher 7/29/06 5:00 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles shadow2097 11/6/06 1:14 PM
Re: create all minimalist puzzles denksport 9/18/07 1:48 PM
create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/27/06 9:02 PM
Hi,
I have a goal - to create all possible minimalist puzles. Already counted number of then - and it looks that it is doable ;)


Let's assume, that each of cell in minimalist field has its nomber (like in lottery) - so that they will have numbers from 1 to 25. We can count each possible combinations of them

as for example in smaller number of cells we would have:

if 2 cells then 3 combinations
1 2 12

if 3 then 7 combinations
1 2 3 12 13 23 123

if 4 then 15 combinations
1 2 3 4 12 13 14 23 24 34 123 124 134 234 1234

if 5 then 31 combinations
1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 15 23 24 25 34 35 45 123 124 125 134 135 145 234 235 245 345 1234 1235 1245 1345 2345 12345

etc...

generally the equation for number of combinations is:
2^x-1
where x = number of cells

in minimalist puzzle there are 25 cells - so number of differend combinations is:
2^25 - 1 = 33 554 431

and that is my goal :banghead:

But there is 1 problem....

let's assume that I will create 1 puzzle in 1 second, so to complete my job I will need
33 554 431 seconds =
559 241 minutes =
9 321 hours =
388 days =
13 months =
more then 1 year of instant creating minimalist

you must be an angel to complete such job
:angel12:

unfortunately not all puzzlez are solvable :roll: , but they also need to be checked


when I finish - I will celebrate ;)
:occasion6:

cheers
Tomek

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/27/06 10:20 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="twoznia"]Number of different combinations is:
2^25 - 1 = 33 554 431

and that is my goal :banghead:

more then 1 year of instant creating minimalist

Luckily for you many of the puzzles are already created ;)

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/27/06 11:06 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="Melizabeth"]

Luckily for you many of the puzzles are already created ;)

284 minimalists created so far -
only 33 554 147 left

:laughing3:

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/27/06 11:19 PM as a reply to twoznia.
I tried to count how many combinations would have puzzles 50x50 (2 colour of course)
it would be 2^2500-1

unfortunately excel refused to count that :error: :notworthy:

it shown only 2^1023 - and that is about 8,98 * 10^307

it gives 307 zeros after 8
:toothy10:

so number of of all combinations of 50x50 would be about 1,3 * 10^617 !!!

617 zeros in a number !!!
does anyone know how to call such a number?

Good news is that

Griddlers may be created to the end of the world ;)

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/27/06 11:45 PM as a reply to twoznia.
Don't forget that all variants that are just mirrors of each other will be rejected (or will they?).

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 12:29 AM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="SvanteE"]Don't forget that all variants that are just mirrors of each other will be rejected (or will they?).

mirror (halve it), rotation (0,90,180,260) - 1/4, totally 1/8 and you end up with only about 4100000 possible puzzles.

Most of them would be just some random mess anyway ...

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 7:22 AM as a reply to twoznia.
One little thing:

I don't know if minimalists must be B/W but in generale:
2^x-1 is for 2 colors pictures
3^x-1 is for 3 colors pictures
...
8^x-1 is for 8 colors pistures
as 8^x-1 = (2^3)^x-1 = 2^3x-1 do this is much bigger number than 10^617 because it will be around 10^1851 emoticonemoticonemoticon

and with triangles it is even more emoticon

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 5:00 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="twoznia"]I tried to count how many combinations would have puzzles 50x50 (2 colour of course)
it would be 2^2500-1

Which is
37582802345480120368336241897238650486773655175925867
70565238397822316814983377085357327257526588443337024
57749526057760309227891351617765651907310968780236464
69404331623656214672441647859113183259372911122158018
05317492327775155799698990751422139691179948773438020
49421624954402214529390781647563339535024772584901607
66686298256791862284963616020887736583495016379018852
30262474405073903820321888923861099058697067531432439
21198482212075444022433366554786856559389689585638126
58237722403772170223999144146602618575265150293647228
09110185003203754963367499515695215418504417479258440
66295279671872605285792552660130702047998218334749356
32167746952968255176585826750271589400788772725007078
03502629523772140288422974862635978797921763382209326
19489509375.

[quote="twoznia"]
Good news is that

Griddlers may be created to the end of the world ;)


Not necessarily. Most random griddlers aren't solvable.

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 5:03 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="twoznia"]
if 2 cells then 3 combinations
1 2 12

Actually, this should be '4 combinations'. You missed the 'empty' combination.

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 5:55 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="ildjarn"]Actually, this should be '4 combinations'. You missed the 'empty' combination.

Well, here this empty combination doesn't exist, as many others, e.g. "full" combination

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 8:03 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="ildjarn"]

Actually, this should be '4 combinations'. You missed the 'empty' combination.

I did not miss empty combination
empty puzzles cannot are not accepted (I tried to submit one some time ago - with no success) - that is why I did not calculate that
hehe ;)

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 8:06 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="Melizabeth"][quote="ildjarn"]Actually, this should be '4 combinations'. You missed the 'empty' combination.

Well, here this empty combination doesn't exist, as many others, e.g. "full" combination

I cannot agree with you - full combination exists ;)
But Hagit will not publish it ;). But it is doable, and has level of difficulty = 0

I guess I created one some time ago - but it is not on griddlers.net
emoticon

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 8:09 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="ildjarn"][quote="twoznia"]I tried to count how many combinations would have puzzles 50x50 (2 colour of course)
it would be 2^2500-1

Which is 375828023....

[quote="twoznia"]
Good news is that

Griddlers may be created to the end of the world ;)


Not necessarily. Most random griddlers aren't solvable.

I was writing here about 50x50
I can bet that number of solvable possible 50x50 griddlers is bigger then all people leaving on earth would be able to create in billions of years

and by the way
how did you calculate that number?

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 8:54 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="twoznia"][quote="ildjarn"]

Actually, this should be '4 combinations'. You missed the 'empty' combination.

I did not miss empty combination
empty puzzles cannot are not accepted (I tried to submit one some time ago - with no success) - that is why I did not calculate that
hehe ;)

Multi's can (or could...) have empty parts. And we were talking about theoretical numbers anyway.

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
2/28/06 8:55 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="twoznia"]and by the way, how did you calculate that number?

Maple

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
3/1/06 12:16 AM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="ildjarn"]

Multi's can (or could...) have empty parts. And we were talking about theoretical numbers anyway.

could emoticon
I experienced that yesterday - you cannot send empty part of multi - as they are not considered as valid

you even cannot cheet by adding 1 pixel

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
6/2/06 12:06 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="bilbobilbo"] Most of them would be just some random mess anyway ...

I think most of the minimalism puzzles started out as a random mess that someone named emoticon

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
6/11/06 11:32 AM as a reply to twoznia.
It's not true!
I saw 2 or 3 first minimalisms with cute names like "try to find the key to this one" and I thought "what a great idea. What could I draw with just 25 pixels?" I had some ideas, I created puzzles. The one I was working on longest was a cat. After two days I gave up - it's not possible to show a cat-looking cat in 25 pixels!
When my ideas finished I stopped creating them

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
6/22/06 10:39 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="twoznia"]Hi,
I have a goal - to create all possible minimalist puzles. Already counted number of then - and it looks that it is doable ;)


Let's assume, that each of cell in minimalist field has its nomber (like in lottery) - so that they will have numbers from 1 to 25. We can count each possible combinations of them

as for example in smaller number of cells we would have:

if 2 cells then 3 combinations
1 2 12

if 3 then 7 combinations
1 2 3 12 13 23 123

if 4 then 15 combinations
1 2 3 4 12 13 14 23 24 34 123 124 134 234 1234

if 5 then 31 combinations
1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 15 23 24 25 34 35 45 123 124 125 134 135 145 234 235 245 345 1234 1235 1245 1345 2345 12345

etc...

generally the equation for number of combinations is:
2^x-1
where x = number of cells

in minimalist puzzle there are 25 cells - so number of differend combinations is:
2^25 - 1 = 33 554 431

and that is my goal :banghead:

But there is 1 problem....

let's assume that I will create 1 puzzle in 1 second, so to complete my job I will need
33 554 431 seconds =
559 241 minutes =
9 321 hours =
388 days =
13 months =
more then 1 year of instant creating minimalist

you must be an angel to complete such job
:angel12:

unfortunately not all puzzlez are solvable :roll: , but they also need to be checked


when I finish - I will celebrate ;)
:occasion6:

cheers
Tomek

I understand your logic, but HOW are you going to create 25 puzzles with 1 square shaded alone? What would you call them anyways?

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
6/23/06 3:53 AM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="wbennett"]I understand your logic, but HOW are you going to create 25 puzzles with 1 square shaded alone? What would you call them anyways?

1 of 25, 2 of 25 etc ....

A part of that post was a joke ;)

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
6/23/06 2:37 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="twoznia"][quote="wbennett"]I understand your logic, but HOW are you going to create 25 puzzles with 1 square shaded alone? What would you call them anyways?

1 of 25, 2 of 25 etc ....

A part of that post was a joke ;)

That results only in 9 puzzles (the others are rotations)

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/3/06 1:09 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="wbennett"][quote="twoznia"]Hi,
I have a goal - to create all possible minimalist puzles. Already counted number of then - and it looks that it is doable ;)


Let's assume, that each of cell in minimalist field has its nomber (like in lottery) - so that they will have numbers from 1 to 25. We can count each possible combinations of them

as for example in smaller number of cells we would have:

if 2 cells then 3 combinations
1 2 12

if 3 then 7 combinations
1 2 3 12 13 23 123

if 4 then 15 combinations
1 2 3 4 12 13 14 23 24 34 123 124 134 234 1234

if 5 then 31 combinations
1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 15 23 24 25 34 35 45 123 124 125 134 135 145 234 235 245 345 1234 1235 1245 1345 2345 12345

etc...

generally the equation for number of combinations is:
2^x-1
where x = number of cells

in minimalist puzzle there are 25 cells - so number of differend combinations is:
2^25 - 1 = 33 554 431

and that is my goal :banghead:

But there is 1 problem....

let's assume that I will create 1 puzzle in 1 second, so to complete my job I will need
33 554 431 seconds =
559 241 minutes =
9 321 hours =
388 days =
13 months =
more then 1 year of instant creating minimalist

you must be an angel to complete such job
:angel12:

unfortunately not all puzzlez are solvable :roll: , but they also need to be checked


when I finish - I will celebrate ;)
:occasion6:

cheers
Tomek

I understand your logic, but HOW are you going to create 25 puzzles with 1 square shaded alone? What would you call them anyways?

the way to calculate your possibilities is very easy:
each cell can have either of N colors
(in this case N = 2)
there are X cells in the grid (for a 5x5 X=25)
there for the number of possibilities is :
Max. - N^X - in your case 2^25 which is 33554432.
subtract from that number an all full and all empty possibilities and a few more unsolvable options and you got your amount of options.
anyway in case you finish doing about 30 mil. puzzles keep in mind :
when doing 3 color 50x50 you have : 3^2500 options ...

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/3/06 2:22 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="squarepusher"]

the way to calculate your possibilities is very easy:
each cell can have either of N colors
(in this case N = 2)
there are X cells in the grid (for a 5x5 X=25)
there for the number of possibilities is :
Max. - N^X - in your case 2^25 which is 33554432.
subtract from that number an all full and all empty possibilities and a few more unsolvable options and you got your amount of options.
anyway in case you finish doing about 30 mil. puzzles keep in mind :
when doing 3 color 50x50 you have : 3^2500 options ...

and please keep in mind that we have up to 8 colours here

anyone with good machine - please fill the result:
;)

8 ^ 2500 = ?

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/3/06 3:44 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="twoznia"]anyone with good machine - please fill the result:
;)

8 ^ 2500 = ?
Look at the beginning of this topic (one page back). ildjarn calculate 2^2500. If you want to know how 8^2500 is, do this:


37582802345480120368336241897238650486773655175925867
70565238397822316814983377085357327257526588443337024
57749526057760309227891351617765651907310968780236464
69404331623656214672441647859113183259372911122158018
05317492327775155799698990751422139691179948773438020
49421624954402214529390781647563339535024772584901607
66686298256791862284963616020887736583495016379018852
30262474405073903820321888923861099058697067531432439
21198482212075444022433366554786856559389689585638126
58237722403772170223999144146602618575265150293647228
09110185003203754963367499515695215418504417479258440
66295279671872605285792552660130702047998218334749356
32167746952968255176585826750271589400788772725007078
03502629523772140288422974862635978797921763382209326
19489509375 ^ 3

Seriously... If you plan to calculate the number, don't paste the result as one line in the forum. Cut the numbers as it is in here.

Thanks,
Hagit

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/5/06 6:32 AM as a reply to twoznia.
8^2500 =
53084469288402965415857953902888840109250315594591772197851276288408082158
86934577687218428429147049532683583549126801777629721309861620828659280132
24499827405708984378457675646516394515948417589571682403600729293423488789
09784083488070009533176658698675760470010215436132534526706916446032842195
24905976006020939338857817628102774467943628503529337678696595742909383868
94380266121418200629600732379442274304092900828736057484553498163430814663
72681612738552636294666573661997989000563367893746123926316870120929629731
30136076671167707660681608293944929947101953311991124711486575156111007117
37190920505622876667190138870975531095940425898353707324096807492734777417
01995190365166750190649349508586781414000112900259875654673888811075100415
79023593027044879055084610743636061579514681732756300139896681575314599511
06734621341968249393594977064302374253900607332522242209791312538744938518
23165781457427314551881655553433521397260371393668335053627112038905459972
04299482431971360198091392175521021808285114658824038221040688766041263045
14161122063065027962300748327388843242335140869588735773989275638978528876
99678587467916741882087729456997268017154775450070371874680332524775280043
63527078158113576902086580879607336250508220149788528823688711772724891624
37044721170624409088539387498300474820625308072559303100259592550176260776
08884577821899189515192765061903944746945679900747890669013446056647522960
60762394933619501678435693450595411597728330699741527418775237248023265287
85201634175660973899173569582138079949476347942098321731143563928224358442
56992216702376456519427913660058510779720382422426729352627871147386069533
49774120154576685962223998605284332840466979529115239676439370211345543961
04949647061218968271917602629843046908874756356106940787468008759559084794
69409563047706020039725815572087005410536948676710051947334063697608908539
01771679531311962953332781399207177651214639014718544496804259737628091254
89983852186724138333884800833122833564586665011684820774749438583092753296
57545594008977132937574085616539588927255406484838471048801662983695044651
58817839926784705768320512861092284956265041176287424313843534570738625986
65132459491641253529898977837758524034413982002600258403041849569286429892
58546038224598392605412214974894309376


That's 2258 digits.

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/8/06 9:33 AM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="twoznia"]
and please keep in mind that we have up to 8 colours here

anyone with good machine - please fill the result:
;)

8 ^ 2500 = ?

8 colors doesn't include the optional trianlges...
that's 2*(8^2)-8 = 64 "colors" (8^2 for all / options and the same for all \ option substract from that once the number of one colored option as they are being counted twice)
120^2500 = ~ 9*(10^5197) !!!
offcourse the actual number of possibilities is much lower since many options are not valid, but i'm sure it will still keep you busy for a while :shock:
i just love math
Nadav

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/8/06 2:40 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="squarepusher"][quote="twoznia"]
and please keep in mind that we have up to 8 colours here

anyone with good machine - please fill the result:
;)

8 ^ 2500 = ?

8 colors doesn't include the optional trianlges...
that's 2*(8^2)-8 = 64 "colors" (8^2 for all / options and the same for all \ option substract from that once the number of one colored option as they are being counted twice)
120^2500 = ~ 9*(10^5197) !!!
offcourse the actual number of possibilities is much lower since many options are not valid, but i'm sure it will still keep you busy for a while :shock:
i just love math
Nadav

120^2500 =
8976667087709757312185072693133021187441213549289907793
9132180933184104488434589596593192024362995237106507420
1285168333785618997422740496431629934291782654288877305
9442159858484824124706316391828471145053531908809077156
5105790653641044177749790523552471375803725365384105335
4407738839909589954126940957197054232362979662404221649
0880344763394099063890150299650002553793066649975843446
8352102762501111430094320813856350720724104978242831823
2103569486151974498597158432860773133857042211522814720
4176201587557016181556876498190057109426735900878365414
9797371406420750152320655313649221056952349041577796387
0106761022970205534174416763354679055712285905418199884
5068921906592196658001307635048554666173167352280084724
3936633775602764999904074982431519343535916097763213034
8948705894794199307259789697050351702891830363978578789
7973073595711927355705470756840284834076488363827734593
4750809197763313249135852569232702733129470360919593309
1124043004526332404739589179828405353419904680703955004
1523338974769652910585415397339413995012257598200334857
7610025664999838570415154533493041846105307382086955066
0844922361411166183606453782862937445932632721828915359
0219031164657240237634727384520608759014624470370318673
6930501590817610088604680864313257419947563596547403833
2348148591956196175085620169663972259941645526119189292
9805584195779539560716977071288793025267341928060159586
7908423372953165374196773861713914179900739277122017512
4898551093346545979980744286579668750440926726288041533
5432439680953316403300505364004206240170334220493750912
8318374304498830955714073977680093058994556890697497515
0932989759316573930714122583917869424192877281182787982
6005198808078043133661577940312416514820509551940933992
5169122977317291711873198579733263507332386104272172433
4757584958654164050092922105902660458291800177846978953
9220803210750211413679020438909668922857907554135188830
3683938825999330184798316039806400485307302271916933529
0459994619535546022585764983403157266062427466359886216
5305147569327302404809174824135828466978125090295212962
4294131013774696393216382475990658563149078477745510377
4291866946070992637062463819798091318243088025349864528
9259881787942526752597569261242455411133486080318773969
4829343231228629473642648064836790313145200551345921566
5020381572748915706357580130132984214944954395617660193
7938745542235607226349478636733413934771100188453702089
7853318318812098102727867020595952541813477639968292666
9450607825754081917237850143750569959403510567261597050
5611647165703692525025756435887466159840176006622120054
1563497987349325182479098062003804001359798673594353312
0903952937221809678384355149287929729500019273116810458
2337991928674213894212527345823721206059261727510548709
3760000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
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That's big.

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/23/06 7:33 AM as a reply to twoznia.
There are 1000 minis puzzles on the site
puzzle #1000 is


Minimalism: Reception Bell created by Ne_Plus_Ultra

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/29/06 2:18 AM as a reply to twoznia.
I did a lot of statistics in my younger days (before I fell for the attraction of long hours with little pay in the book business). I was expecting to see a lot of rhos and factorials in this discussion but:

120^250=~9^(10^5197)!!!

is the first time I've seen a tripple factorial.

As an aside, it looks like we're counting reflections and rotations here. Is that cricket?

In similar spirit: If two soduku puzzles are exactly the same with the exception that all the 9s in A are 7s in B (and vice versa) are we looking at two unique puzzles? I know its off topic, but I got into a heated discussion with someone about this and would like your thoughts.

Best,
Sean

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/29/06 8:58 AM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="FredTheYounger"]I did a lot of statistics in my younger days (before I fell for the attraction of long hours with little pay in the book business). I was expecting to see a lot of rhos and factorials in this discussion but:

120^250=~9^(10^5197)!!!

is the first time I've seen a tripple factorial.

The double factorial (a!!) exists, for odd positive integers a it's defined as 1*3*5*...*a; for even positive integers a it's 2*4*6*...*a. (Or if you like recursive function definitions: 1!! = 1, a!! = a!/(a-1)!!).

This can be extended to triple factorials: a!!! = 1*4*7*...a for (a==1 mod 3), a!!! = 2*5*8*... for (a==2 mod 3) and a!!! = 3*6*9*...*a for (a==0 mod 3).

Perhaps !! (and !!!) can be extended to a in R (just like the Gamma function), but I'm too lazy to find the function ;)

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/29/06 9:49 AM as a reply to twoznia.
I had no idea that double factorials existed, let alone triple ones, so I'll stay out of that discussion. Thanks for the explanation though! As for switching number in Sudokus, from a logic point of view they would be exactly the same. The numbers are just symbols and could be replaced by others without changing the way the puzzle has to be solved. It would be like taking a Griddler and just change some of the colors. The puzzle stays the same.

BUT.... for me it might become a very different puzzle if high numbers would be swapped with low ones. I usually start looking for possibilities with number one, if the next step isn't too obvious. Assuming there is more than one step possible at the time to find the next number, the order in which I solve a puzzle would become different and I would never notice that I had solved the same puzzle twice. (That's my problem with sudokus anyway, after a while they all start to look like each other, especially the result).

Jelga

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
7/29/06 5:00 PM as a reply to twoznia.
sorry about the typing mistake it's :

120^250=~9*(10^5197)!!! and not as written.

as for the soduku puzzles,a little theoretical experiment :
take an unsolved soduku puzzle ,copy it to a paper and instead of 1 use a, instead of 2 use b and so on.
now solve it (a,b,c..) instead of (1,2,3..) then
copy the solution to the original (back in digits) you see the result will fit exactly, that is because the "transalation" work the same both ways. in the same spirit use instead of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 -
1,2,3,4,5,6,9,8,7.
the result looks different but the solving method remains the same
Nadav

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
11/6/06 1:14 PM as a reply to twoznia.
[quote="squarepusher"]sorry about the typing mistake it's :

120^250=~9*(10^5197)!!! and not as written.

Nadav

actually it was right, now it's wrong, the number is 2500 not 250.
it's the product of height X width of a puzzle.

the number 8.97*10^5197 is the maximum griddlers on t-h-i-s site, because it's limited, i've seen griddlers with 10 colors and size 80*80 which gives 1.34*10^14613
possibilities of griddlers, and i assume that there are even bigger griddlers.

I have two questions (to continue the discussion):

1)))
the maximum number of triddlers. is 8^num of cells.
but how much cell it's the max? how can i calculate how many cells are in a triddler? (because it's not simple height X width).

2)))
what's the maximum difficulty(=points) of b&w griddler? or for 3-color griddler?
(maybe we will have to learn the algorithm which calculates the points, but authors of puzzles with a lot of points may know more than me)

Re: create all minimalist puzzles
Answer
9/18/07 1:48 PM as a reply to twoznia.
but not all of them are solvable.

there are 2 possible solutions in the example. its unsolvable
Attachment

Attachments: impossible griddler.JPG (5.9k)

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