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Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
21/04/07 14.06
Im new to the Site, this is my first week. Though i find the site very entertaining.

I just wanted to suggest a way to raide and lower difficulty ratings. The suggestion accoured to me because even in your workshop you talk about the limitations of the computer program to discern difficulty due to single line solving methedology.

Why Not add a second vote with options like:
1) EXTREAMLY Easy for its Rating.
2) Simple for Its Rating.
3) On Par with its Rating
4) Difficult for its Rating.
5) How did this get rated so low!

after X amount of votes in a singular direction say like 100 its difficulty rating moves to reflect that.

Obviously this thought or idea can be improved upon but its just a thought.

imo
Tim

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
21/04/07 16.38 come risposta a unwound.
Hi Tim,

Welcome to the site emoticon

As you noticed, the points system isn't very good for telling you how difficult a puzzle is. A lot of energy has been put into finding a better way, but so far none of them was good enough. It's because of that the word difficulty has been changed into points. The points are just a nice reward for when you solved a puzzle.
However, there is a good way to know if the puzzle will be hard or not: The Mid Time. This is the time most users needed to solve the puzzle (the median time, not the average). There need to be at least 50 users to be sure it's accurate, so in the first days the time of a new puzzle might be deceptive, but after that it's the best way to find easy or hard puzzles.

Thanks for your input anyway and have fun solving!

Jelga

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
21/04/07 23.25 come risposta a unwound.
Ty for the quick ressponse.
Was more of a solution for the scoring system then my personal quandry.
I just solve em page by page the difficulty is inconsequential.
I just figured to make the point system more valid. Or entail a discussion about it. and hear what people thought.

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
02/09/07 4.37 come risposta a unwound.
I like the idea of having a second vote for closeness to point rating but the midtime isn't really a good dificulty rating either because people (such as my mom) leave the window open and the time running when they leave and end up getting a time such as 11 hours on a 1 hour puzzle.

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
02/09/07 8.36 come risposta a unwound.
[quote="ferloft101"]I like the idea of having a second vote for closeness to point rating but the midtime isn't really a good dificulty rating either because people (such as my mom) leave the window open and the time running when they leave and end up getting a time such as 11 hours on a 1 hour puzzle.
Your mom can leave the window open 11 days and won't influence the mid-time.
Read more about it in Huge maximum solving times topic under "Records and Statistics" forum.

Hagit

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
26/01/08 9.22 come risposta a unwound.
hi, i had some suggestions for a better weighing system, but they were never been talked about.

Check this: High pointed "Kiddlers" topic under "Discussions" forum.

greets
koma

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
01/02/08 23.50 come risposta a unwound.
Thanks for post but you are preaching to the choir. I have for years suggested ideas but no one listens. The ratings are useless so just ignore them. Just enjoy the puzzles. Maybe one day we will get a team who cares about the value of points, until then, don't fret as it is a useless effort.

Welcome to the site and hope you enjoy the many wonderful puzzles submitted by players.

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
03/02/08 0.21 come risposta a unwound.
[quote="lioness999999"]Maybe one day we will get a team who cares about the value of points, until then, don't fret as it is a useless effort.
I don't understand your comment. The Team are the people who own this site - build it, put all of their free time and love in it and made it as best as they could within their power. So how can you expect that there will be another team one day?

Like I explained before, they have tried to come up with something better - it just wasn't good enough. Maybe one day they will try again - but I don't think answers like this will make them....

Jelga

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
16/02/08 23.26 come risposta a unwound.
I have been working on a program that solves griddlers. At this point it also is a single line solver. However, I added some of my own optimization as far as which rows and columns should be checked first. This optimizer continually updates the rank of a row or column so that those lines with a greater chance of new info will be tested first.

Eventually, I plan to carefully document and code different human solving techniques and try to use them first. If they fail, then I would switch to the single line solver temporarily (until new information can get me back to human techniques).

One idea is to focus on an area of the grid (like humans do), instead of iterating through all the rows and columns. This means not checking the entire row or column but just that area. A programmatic solver that can stair step may quickly solve those easy high point puzzles.

I am interested in what the Griddlers team has worked on in the past. I for one am willing to help the team instead of criticizing it.

With Kindest Regards,
Camper

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
17/02/08 11.03 come risposta a unwound.
Hi camper

Our solving program is good for verifying puzzles so far that it doesn't accept unsolvable puzzles. It is not optimal, I believe that solving 500x500 puzzle can take less than one day ;-) and the score is really wrong.

The easiest way how to test program if it calculates good difficulty numbers is comparing the results with middle time of human solving.

Of course there is an additional criteria, puzzles which are mirrored or rotated must have the same score. Our program doesn't follow this criteria.

You can contact me on email rasto@griddlers.net and we can talk more about the testing.

Bye Ra100

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
18/02/08 4.31 come risposta a unwound.
[quote="Ra100"]It is not optimal, I believe that solving 500x500 puzzle can take less than one day ;-) and the score is really wrong.


500x500... really? Did you mean 50x50 or are you testing the limits of your program?

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
18/02/08 8.12 come risposta a unwound.
[quote="Camper"][quote="Ra100"]It is not optimal, I believe that solving 500x500 puzzle can take less than one day ;-) and the score is really wrong.


500x500... really? Did you mean 50x50 or are you testing the limits of your program?
Yes. 500x500.
It isn't a test. The workshop CAN validate a 500x500 puzzle. Take a look here.
Hagit

Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
18/02/08 11.00 come risposta a unwound.
And you can even have this puzzle as PDF , look at iGridd books.

RE: Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
08/05/08 12.13 come risposta a Ra100.
Ra100:
Of course there is an additional criteria, puzzles which are mirrored or rotated must have the same score. Our program doesn't follow this criteria.


i suggested to take the mean of all 4(rotated) scores of a Griddler to get a more realistic score, so if you take the mean of all 8(rotated and mirrored) scores od a Griddler, you got this criteria fulfilled.

And any improvement, which an additional criteria fulfilled is, should be taken as a reason to change something.

greets
koma

RE: Re: Puzzle Difficulty.
Risposta
08/05/08 13.23 come risposta a koma.
koma:
any improvement, which an additional criteria fulfilled is, should be taken as a reason to change something.


True, your idea would improve the rating at least a bit. But don't forget it would also make the validating proces 8x as long, which would be annoying for the author and put extra strain on the server. It's up to Rasto to decide if the improvement on points is worth the effort and the additional effects to the site.

I hope this explains why not every good idea will be worked upon right away. There are a lot of nice ideas to improve the site in the suggestionbox. They are all read by the Team and taken into consideration. And if there's time do work on them - they'll choose something to fix or improve.

Jelga

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