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Popularity?
Risposta
17/03/08 16.55
How is popularity calculated as it seems strange to me that a griddler can be popular even though only a small number of people have solved it and another puzzle can have hundreds of solvers and be deemed low in popularity.

Jingai

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
17/03/08 20.11 come risposta a jingai.
Hi,

You can read all about how the popularity is calculated in the FAQ. You'll have to remember one thing though - not every solver votes for the puzzle. So the number of solvers does not always tell how many people have voted for it. Apart from that - hard puzzles tend to get higher votes on average. It's probably because people who had to work hard to solve it usually think more before they vote.

Jelga

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
20/03/08 9.59 come risposta a jingai.
I like doing hard puzzles and big ones, but, for my own part, if I vote higher for them it's because they generally have prettier, and/or better rendered pictures and better play value. I've done some with good pictures, but which were so easy they were boring or tedious, and others that were easy but interesting to do, but where the resulting picture wasn't very good. Some puzzles are easy, fun and pretty, and they get high scores!

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
25/03/08 22.41 come risposta a jingai.
It's the least I can do to "reward" the creator. Granted, some aren't as great as I thought they were, so I give them @ least a score of 25%. I don't see how you could prove that a puzzle deserves less than that.

Also, I've left a comment with each puzzle I've solved too.

My reasoning is that the creator took the time to make this for me, so the least I could do is say "Thank You!" emoticon

On a side note, I've always questioned if voting should be manditory on here, but get replies that it's totally optional. I personally think that would be something we had to do or get rid of it completely.

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
04/04/08 11.33 come risposta a jingai.
I have been studying the voting system on a spreadsheet and came across a strange fact.
Did you know that any vote that is not for 100% actually brings the popularity down?

Strange but true.

I'd suggest a better system but I can't think of one at the moment.

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
04/04/08 20.57 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="jingai"]I have been studying the voting system on a spreadsheet and came across a strange fact.
Did you know that any vote that is not for 100% actually brings the popularity down?

Strange but true.

I'd suggest a better system but I can't think of one at the moment.

How did you come across that logic (of using a spreadsheet) much less the idea of it brings down a popularity. I'm guessing that it might be converting the % to a .XX number & then taking the average. So, if you have a vote of 100% & 50%, that would be 150%. Divide that by the number of votes (2) & the popularity would be .75.

Am I wrong in my thinking?

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
04/04/08 21.23 come risposta a jingai.
Hi wh,
I used to use spreadsheets in my job so I'm totally at home using them.

My statement is true I can assure you (it didn't seem logical to me at first but what can't speak can't lie).

I can agree exactly with what my popularity is by inputting all the votes cast into the spreadsheet so I know it is working.

A quick example..

1x75+1x100=175/2=87.5

someone else votes 75...

2x75+1x100=250/3=83.33

see the problem.

hope this helps

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
04/04/08 21.26 come risposta a jingai.
ps..it was only a 1 line spreadsheet so it wasn't difficult.

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
04/04/08 23.07 come risposta a jingai.
Emmmm... Actually, it really makes sense. If the average for the puzzle is X, and you vote less than X, then the new average will be also less than X (because to keep it at X, you'd have to vote exactly X). If you vote more than the average, the new average will be higher.

So, if the average is 52% after 5 vots, and the 6th vote is 75, you'd get:
(52*5+75)/6=55.8
In this case the average "grows" after a higher vote... It doesn't always become lower. Or am I misunderstanding what you were trying to say?

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
05/04/08 0.10 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="anna_black"]Emmmm... Actually, it really makes sense. If the average for the puzzle is X, and you vote less than X, then the new average will be also less than X (because to keep it at X, you'd have to vote exactly X). If you vote more than the average, the new average will be higher.

That's it in a nutshell or it sounds good anyway.

So, if the average is 52% after 5 vots, and the 6th vote is 75, you'd get:
(52*5+75)/6=55.8
In this case the average "grows" after a higher vote... It doesn't always become lower. Or am I misunderstanding what you were trying to say?

I'm afraid your maths lets you down cos you can't just multiply a percentage (52) by a value (5).

You have to use the votes count and calculate from there.

This is getting technical isn't it :-)

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
05/04/08 0.13 come risposta a jingai.
'That's it in a nutshell or it sounds good anyway.'

I take that back it's wrong

after thinking about it.

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
07/04/08 2.47 come risposta a jingai.
I thought you meant you had a spreadsheet of every puzzle you did & the score you gave it - thereby giving me cause to why you were doing that! emoticon
I see what you are doing.


I also understand what that other poster said when to keep a puzzle @ X%, you would have to vote X% (or higher).

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
07/04/08 17.33 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="wbennett"]I thought you meant you had a spreadsheet of every puzzle you did & the score you gave it - thereby giving me cause to why you were doing that! emoticon
I see what you are doing.


I also understand what that other poster said when to keep a puzzle @ X%, you would have to vote X% (or higher).

I used to think I was supporting good griddlers by giving the 50/75/100% but from now on it's 100% or nothing...incidentally nothing IS better than 0/25/50/75 provided someone has voted 100% which supports your statement. :?

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
07/04/08 17.47 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="jingai"][quote="wbennett"]I thought you meant you had a spreadsheet of every puzzle you did & the score you gave it - thereby giving me cause to why you were doing that! emoticon
I see what you are doing.


I also understand what that other poster said when to keep a puzzle @ X%, you would have to vote X% (or higher).

I used to think I was supporting good griddlers by giving the 50/75/100% but from now on it's 100% or nothing...incidentally nothing IS better than 0/25/50/75 provided someone has voted 100% which supports your statement. :?

Just all depends on your opinion about the puzzle you just completed.

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
07/04/08 23.19 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="wbennett"]
Just all depends on your opinion about the puzzle you just completed.

I think you miss the point.

I was under the misguided opinion that 50 and 75 were positive feedbacks (me and many others no doubt) when in actual fact it sends the popularity down.

A better system would 2 options only good and bad and the popularity being good/(good+bad).

I must say I am surprised that no official griddler people have responded in this thread since I pointed out this flaw in the system.

Anyway I am going into hospital for a short (hopefully!) stay so I won't be able to reply to any further posts for a while.

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
08/04/08 6.12 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="jingai"]
I was under the misguided opinion that 50 and 75 were positive feedbacks (me and many others no doubt) when in actual fact it sends the popularity down.


Again, it only sends the popularity down if it was originally higher.
A vote of 75 on a puzzle with 90% popularity will lower the score,
a vote of 75 on a puzzle with 30% popularity will make the score higher.
I don't see any problem with that. That's what average is all about...
(And by the way, I think we should vote on the quality on the puzzle by itself, and not to "fix" what the previous voters had done... So for me, that's not an issue anyway.)

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
08/04/08 7.26 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="jingai"]I must say I am surprised that no official griddler people have responded in this thread since I pointed out this flaw in the system.
It's flawless math. anna_black demonstrated a few examples for you.

[quote="jingai"]Anyway I am going into hospital for a short (hopefully!) stay so I won't be able to reply to any further posts for a while.
Get well soon!
Hagit

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
08/04/08 15.46 come risposta a jingai.
As to my comment about "opinion of puzzle", I meant that you, myself, & somebody else could have 3 TOTALLY DIFFERENT feelings about a puzzle - thereby each of us giving it a totally different voting score.


My thoughts on this matter is that we should DO AWAY with the 0% option & leave it with 25%, 50%, 75%, & 100%.
This way, they can be viewed as such:
25% - puzzle could use some improvement :scratch:
50% - puzzle was good emoticon
75% - puzzle was great :thumbright:
100% - I LOVE THIS PUZZLE! :love7:


[quote="jingai"]Anyway I am going into hospital for a short (hopefully!) stay so I won't be able to reply to any further posts for a while.
[quote="Hagit"]Get well soon!
Hagit

I agree - get well soon!!!
:hello: :hello: :hello:

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
09/04/08 8.39 come risposta a jingai.
Hi again
My lobotomy was a complete success... emoticon

Only joking actually my op was postponed due to technical difficulties but thanks for the get well thoughts.

Anna was right in her thinking (I checked it on my spreadsheeet) but I still don't think it is a flawless system especially as it's called popularity.

Someone (not me emoticon) could create an almost unsolvable puzzle,solve it themselves using their insider knowledge and give it 100%.

The puzzle would then be the most popular puzzle on the site!

Also multi griddlers don't get a look in as far as I can tell as they are scored on each section of the puzzle as far as I can tell.

I have noticed that the kiddlers have a different scoring system with only 3 options which would be much better imho.

Yes doctor I am just comming......

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
09/04/08 13.37 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="jingai"]Someone (not me emoticon) could create an almost unsolvable puzzle,solve it themselves using their insider knowledge and give it 100%.

The puzzle would then be the most popular puzzle on the site!

Also multi griddlers don't get a look in as far as I can tell as they are scored on each section of the puzzle as far as I can tell.
The puzzle might get a 100% score after the first vote in the general lists, but to get into the Most Popular lists, a puzzle needs to have at least 12 votes. As for Multi's, you can only vote for them after you finished all parts.

As for the meaning of the votes, there is a link on each puzzle page about how to vote.This it what it advises as a guide to voting:
    100 - Perfect puzzle, either by design or solving.
    75 - Very good puzzle, but not perfect.
    50 - Average, one of those "nice" puzzles.
    25 - Not horrible, but not a nice puzzle.
    0 - Poor puzzle, either by design or solving.

So there's nothing wrong with giving a puzzle a 75% vote. It will mean the puzzle can't have a 100% popularity, but then, hardly anything in life is considered perfect by everyone.

I hope this gives the voting system a bit more sense to you!

Jelga

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
09/04/08 15.32 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="Jeltje"]As for the meaning of the votes, there is a link on each puzzle page about how to vote.This it what it advises as a guide to voting:
    100 - Perfect puzzle, either by design or solving.
    75 - Very good puzzle, but not perfect.
    50 - Average, one of those "nice" puzzles.
    25 - Not horrible, but not a nice puzzle.
    0 - Poor puzzle, either by design or solving.

So there's nothing wrong with giving a puzzle a 75% vote. It will mean the puzzle can't have a 100% popularity, but then, hardly anything in life is considered perfect by everyone.
Jelga


Jelga, not to put you or Griddlers.Net on the spot, but do you (you & the team) honestly think that we should have a 0% option?

In my opinion, that sounds rather harsh/rude. True, I may not like something completely, but I'm sure I could find at least 1 positive aspect about it (whether it applies to puzzles or anything else in life).
For example, I dislike spiders (even have arachnophobia). But I do know they eat bugs. So, that's why I can find them useful.

Hopefully, you know what I mean.

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
09/04/08 18.56 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="Jeltje"]
The puzzle might get a 100% score after the first vote in the general lists, but to get into the Most Popular lists, a puzzle needs to have at least 12 votes. As for Multi's, you can only vote for them after you finished all parts.

As for the meaning of the votes, there is a link on each puzzle page about how to vote.This it what it advises as a guide to voting:

    100 - Perfect puzzle, either by design or solving.
    75 - Very good puzzle, but not perfect.
    50 - Average, one of those "nice" puzzles.
    25 - Not horrible, but not a nice puzzle.
    0 - Poor puzzle, either by design or solving.

So there's nothing wrong with giving a puzzle a 75% vote. It will mean the puzzle can't have a 100% popularity, but then, hardly anything in life is considered perfect by everyone.Jelga


I didn't realise the first two points about the minimum 12 and the multi so thanks for pointing that out.

Has a multi ever made it to the most poular list?

I agree with wbennet about the 0% being overabused as
some of mine own puzzles have double figure 100%'s and several 0%'s to go with it.

I know different people have different opinions but are they that diverse?

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
09/04/08 20.23 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="jingai"]Has a multi ever made it to the most poular list?
Sure! They have their own list: Most Popular

I know different people have different opinions but are they that diverse?

It's been discussed here before in quite a few topics in this forum. There are people around that for whatever reason give low votes to most puzzles. Elimininating the 0% vote wouldn't change their behaviour I'm afraid, they would just continue giving the lowest vote available...

Jelga

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
10/04/08 1.37 come risposta a jingai.
[quote="Jeltje"]
I know different people have different opinions but are they that diverse?

It's been discussed here before in quite a few topics in this forum. There are people around that for whatever reason give low votes to most puzzles. Elimininating the 0% vote wouldn't change their behaviour I'm afraid, they would just continue giving the lowest vote available...

Jelga

But with a 25%, at least they're giving some kind of score. A 0% is the same as NOT voting (or worse - brings the popularity down).

Re: Popularity?
Risposta
15/04/08 5.42 come risposta a jingai.
Just my two cents, but, I appreciate that I have the option of saying, "This puzzle was completely disappointing." I very, very rarely use it (I'll usually not vote in that case,) but sometimes it's just not a good puzzle. On the other end of the same stick, very few puzzles rate a 100 from me either. It has to be an excellent puzzle, that yields a beautiful picture (taking into account the size of the grid), that I look at and say "That could not be done any better in that size."

Unless I'm completely misreading the submission guidelines, the staff checks submitted puzzles for solvability, and and checks that they don't run afoul of the prohibited subjects (flags, obscenity, duplication, total symmetry). I didn't see any indication that they prohibit puzzles on aesthetic grounds. Until that's the case, I prefer to have the option of using a 0% vote to say "This puzzle was ugly. Ugly to solve and ugly in result. I'm sorry I spent any time on it."

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