### Popularity?

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 Popularity? Terry Collins 17/03/08 16.55 Re: Popularity? Jelga . 17/03/08 20.11 Re: Popularity? JC 20/03/08 9.59 Re: Popularity? Wayne Bennett 25/03/08 22.41 Re: Popularity? Terry Collins 04/04/08 11.33 Re: Popularity? Wayne Bennett 04/04/08 20.57 Re: Popularity? Terry Collins 04/04/08 21.23 Re: Popularity? Terry Collins 04/04/08 21.26 Re: Popularity? anna_black 04/04/08 23.07 Re: Popularity? Terry Collins 05/04/08 0.10 Re: Popularity? Terry Collins 05/04/08 0.13 Re: Popularity? Wayne Bennett 07/04/08 2.47 Re: Popularity? Terry Collins 07/04/08 17.33 Re: Popularity? Wayne Bennett 07/04/08 17.47 Re: Popularity? Terry Collins 07/04/08 23.19 Re: Popularity? anna_black 08/04/08 6.12 Re: Popularity? Hagit Maor 08/04/08 7.26 Re: Popularity? Wayne Bennett 08/04/08 15.46 Re: Popularity? Terry Collins 09/04/08 8.39 Re: Popularity? Jelga . 09/04/08 13.37 Re: Popularity? Wayne Bennett 09/04/08 15.32 Re: Popularity? Terry Collins 09/04/08 18.56 Re: Popularity? Jelga . 09/04/08 20.23 Re: Popularity? Wayne Bennett 10/04/08 1.37 Re: Popularity? Barb Bailey 15/04/08 5.42
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Popularity? Risposta 17/03/08 16.55 How is popularity calculated as it seems strange to me that a griddler can be popular even though only a small number of people have solved it and another puzzle can have hundreds of solvers and be deemed low in popularity.Jingai 0 (0 Voti)
 Jelga . Moderator Post: 1588 Data di Iscrizione: 31/01/04 Re: Popularity? Risposta 17/03/08 20.11 come risposta a Terry Collins. Hi,You can read all about how the popularity is calculated in the FAQ. You'll have to remember one thing though - not every solver votes for the puzzle. So the number of solvers does not always tell how many people have voted for it. Apart from that - hard puzzles tend to get higher votes on average. It's probably because people who had to work hard to solve it usually think more before they vote.Jelga 0 (0 Voti)
 JC Post: 194 Data di Iscrizione: 01/11/06 Re: Popularity? Risposta 20/03/08 9.59 come risposta a Terry Collins. I like doing hard puzzles and big ones, but, for my own part, if I vote higher for them it's because they generally have prettier, and/or better rendered pictures and better play value. I've done some with good pictures, but which were so easy they were boring or tedious, and others that were easy but interesting to do, but where the resulting picture wasn't very good. Some puzzles are easy, fun and pretty, and they get high scores! 0 (0 Voti)
 Wayne Bennett Post: 213 Data di Iscrizione: 14/08/03 Re: Popularity? Risposta 25/03/08 22.41 come risposta a Terry Collins. It's the least I can do to "reward" the creator. Granted, some aren't as great as I thought they were, so I give them @ least a score of 25%. I don't see how you could prove that a puzzle deserves less than that.Also, I've left a comment with each puzzle I've solved too.My reasoning is that the creator took the time to make this for me, so the least I could do is say "Thank You!" On a side note, I've always questioned if voting should be manditory on here, but get replies that it's totally optional. I personally think that would be something we had to do or get rid of it completely. 0 (0 Voti)
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Re: Popularity? Risposta 04/04/08 11.33 come risposta a Terry Collins. I have been studying the voting system on a spreadsheet and came across a strange fact.Did you know that any vote that is not for 100% actually brings the popularity down?Strange but true.I'd suggest a better system but I can't think of one at the moment. 0 (0 Voti)
 Wayne Bennett Post: 213 Data di Iscrizione: 14/08/03 Re: Popularity? Risposta 04/04/08 20.57 come risposta a Terry Collins. "jingai":I have been studying the voting system on a spreadsheet and came across a strange fact.Did you know that any vote that is not for 100% actually brings the popularity down?Strange but true.I'd suggest a better system but I can't think of one at the moment.How did you come across that logic (of using a spreadsheet) much less the idea of it brings down a popularity. I'm guessing that it might be converting the % to a .XX number & then taking the average. So, if you have a vote of 100% & 50%, that would be 150%. Divide that by the number of votes (2) & the popularity would be .75.Am I wrong in my thinking? 0 (0 Voti)
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Re: Popularity? Risposta 04/04/08 21.23 come risposta a Terry Collins. Hi wh,I used to use spreadsheets in my job so I'm totally at home using them.My statement is true I can assure you (it didn't seem logical to me at first but what can't speak can't lie).I can agree exactly with what my popularity is by inputting all the votes cast into the spreadsheet so I know it is working.A quick example..1x75+1x100=175/2=87.5someone else votes 75...2x75+1x100=250/3=83.33see the problem.hope this helps 0 (0 Voti)
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Re: Popularity? Risposta 04/04/08 21.26 come risposta a Terry Collins. ps..it was only a 1 line spreadsheet so it wasn't difficult. 0 (0 Voti)
 anna_black Post: 42 Data di Iscrizione: 25/10/07 Re: Popularity? Risposta 04/04/08 23.07 come risposta a Terry Collins. Emmmm... Actually, it really makes sense. If the average for the puzzle is X, and you vote less than X, then the new average will be also less than X (because to keep it at X, you'd have to vote exactly X). If you vote more than the average, the new average will be higher.So, if the average is 52% after 5 vots, and the 6th vote is 75, you'd get:(52*5+75)/6=55.8In this case the average "grows" after a higher vote... It doesn't always become lower. Or am I misunderstanding what you were trying to say? 0 (0 Voti)
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Re: Popularity? Risposta 05/04/08 0.10 come risposta a Terry Collins. "anna_black":Emmmm... Actually, it really makes sense. If the average for the puzzle is X, and you vote less than X, then the new average will be also less than X (because to keep it at X, you'd have to vote exactly X). If you vote more than the average, the new average will be higher.That's it in a nutshell or it sounds good anyway.So, if the average is 52% after 5 vots, and the 6th vote is 75, you'd get:(52*5+75)/6=55.8In this case the average "grows" after a higher vote... It doesn't always become lower. Or am I misunderstanding what you were trying to say?I'm afraid your maths lets you down cos you can't just multiply a percentage (52) by a value (5).You have to use the votes count and calculate from there.This is getting technical isn't it :-) 0 (0 Voti)
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Re: Popularity? Risposta 05/04/08 0.13 come risposta a Terry Collins. 'That's it in a nutshell or it sounds good anyway.'I take that back it's wrong after thinking about it. 0 (0 Voti)
 Wayne Bennett Post: 213 Data di Iscrizione: 14/08/03 Re: Popularity? Risposta 07/04/08 2.47 come risposta a Terry Collins. I thought you meant you had a spreadsheet of every puzzle you did & the score you gave it - thereby giving me cause to why you were doing that! I see what you are doing.I also understand what that other poster said when to keep a puzzle @ X%, you would have to vote X% (or higher). 0 (0 Voti)
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Re: Popularity? Risposta 07/04/08 17.33 come risposta a Terry Collins. "wbennett":I thought you meant you had a spreadsheet of every puzzle you did & the score you gave it - thereby giving me cause to why you were doing that! I see what you are doing.I also understand what that other poster said when to keep a puzzle @ X%, you would have to vote X% (or higher).I used to think I was supporting good griddlers by giving the 50/75/100% but from now on it's 100% or nothing...incidentally nothing IS better than 0/25/50/75 provided someone has voted 100% which supports your statement. :? 0 (0 Voti)
 Wayne Bennett Post: 213 Data di Iscrizione: 14/08/03 Re: Popularity? Risposta 07/04/08 17.47 come risposta a Terry Collins. "jingai":"wbennett":I thought you meant you had a spreadsheet of every puzzle you did & the score you gave it - thereby giving me cause to why you were doing that! I see what you are doing.I also understand what that other poster said when to keep a puzzle @ X%, you would have to vote X% (or higher).I used to think I was supporting good griddlers by giving the 50/75/100% but from now on it's 100% or nothing...incidentally nothing IS better than 0/25/50/75 provided someone has voted 100% which supports your statement. :?Just all depends on your opinion about the puzzle you just completed. 0 (0 Voti)
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Re: Popularity? Risposta 07/04/08 23.19 come risposta a Terry Collins. "wbennett":Just all depends on your opinion about the puzzle you just completed.I think you miss the point.I was under the misguided opinion that 50 and 75 were positive feedbacks (me and many others no doubt) when in actual fact it sends the popularity down.A better system would 2 options only good and bad and the popularity being good/(good+bad).I must say I am surprised that no official griddler people have responded in this thread since I pointed out this flaw in the system.Anyway I am going into hospital for a short (hopefully!) stay so I won't be able to reply to any further posts for a while. 0 (0 Voti)
 anna_black Post: 42 Data di Iscrizione: 25/10/07 Re: Popularity? Risposta 08/04/08 6.12 come risposta a Terry Collins. "jingai":I was under the misguided opinion that 50 and 75 were positive feedbacks (me and many others no doubt) when in actual fact it sends the popularity down.Again, it only sends the popularity down if it was originally higher. A vote of 75 on a puzzle with 90% popularity will lower the score,a vote of 75 on a puzzle with 30% popularity will make the score higher.I don't see any problem with that. That's what average is all about...(And by the way, I think we should vote on the quality on the puzzle by itself, and not to "fix" what the previous voters had done... So for me, that's not an issue anyway.) 0 (0 Voti)
 Hagit Maor Moderator Post: 3073 Data di Iscrizione: 28/06/02 Re: Popularity? Risposta 08/04/08 7.26 come risposta a Terry Collins. "jingai":I must say I am surprised that no official griddler people have responded in this thread since I pointed out this flaw in the system.It's flawless math. anna_black demonstrated a few examples for you."jingai":Anyway I am going into hospital for a short (hopefully!) stay so I won't be able to reply to any further posts for a while.Get well soon!Hagit 0 (0 Voti)
 Wayne Bennett Post: 213 Data di Iscrizione: 14/08/03 Re: Popularity? Risposta 08/04/08 15.46 come risposta a Terry Collins. As to my comment about "opinion of puzzle", I meant that you, myself, & somebody else could have 3 TOTALLY DIFFERENT feelings about a puzzle - thereby each of us giving it a totally different voting score.My thoughts on this matter is that we should DO AWAY with the 0% option & leave it with 25%, 50%, 75%, & 100%.This way, they can be viewed as such:25% - puzzle could use some improvement :scratch:50% - puzzle was good 75% - puzzle was great :thumbright:100% - I LOVE THIS PUZZLE! :love7: "jingai":Anyway I am going into hospital for a short (hopefully!) stay so I won't be able to reply to any further posts for a while."Hagit":Get well soon!HagitI agree - get well soon!!!:hello: :hello: :hello: 0 (0 Voti)
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Re: Popularity? Risposta 09/04/08 8.39 come risposta a Terry Collins. Hi againMy lobotomy was a complete success... Only joking actually my op was postponed due to technical difficulties but thanks for the get well thoughts.Anna was right in her thinking (I checked it on my spreadsheeet) but I still don't think it is a flawless system especially as it's called popularity.Someone (not me ) could create an almost unsolvable puzzle,solve it themselves using their insider knowledge and give it 100%.The puzzle would then be the most popular puzzle on the site!Also multi griddlers don't get a look in as far as I can tell as they are scored on each section of the puzzle as far as I can tell.I have noticed that the kiddlers have a different scoring system with only 3 options which would be much better imho.Yes doctor I am just comming...... 0 (0 Voti)
 Jelga . Moderator Post: 1588 Data di Iscrizione: 31/01/04 Re: Popularity? Risposta 09/04/08 13.37 come risposta a Terry Collins. "jingai":Someone (not me ) could create an almost unsolvable puzzle,solve it themselves using their insider knowledge and give it 100%.The puzzle would then be the most popular puzzle on the site!Also multi griddlers don't get a look in as far as I can tell as they are scored on each section of the puzzle as far as I can tell.The puzzle might get a 100% score after the first vote in the general lists, but to get into the Most Popular lists, a puzzle needs to have at least 12 votes. As for Multi's, you can only vote for them after you finished all parts. As for the meaning of the votes, there is a link on each puzzle page about how to vote.This it what it advises as a guide to voting:100 - Perfect puzzle, either by design or solving. 75 - Very good puzzle, but not perfect. 50 - Average, one of those "nice" puzzles. 25 - Not horrible, but not a nice puzzle. 0 - Poor puzzle, either by design or solving. So there's nothing wrong with giving a puzzle a 75% vote. It will mean the puzzle can't have a 100% popularity, but then, hardly anything in life is considered perfect by everyone.I hope this gives the voting system a bit more sense to you!Jelga 0 (0 Voti)
 Wayne Bennett Post: 213 Data di Iscrizione: 14/08/03 Re: Popularity? Risposta 09/04/08 15.32 come risposta a Terry Collins. "Jeltje":As for the meaning of the votes, there is a link on each puzzle page about how to vote.This it what it advises as a guide to voting:100 - Perfect puzzle, either by design or solving. 75 - Very good puzzle, but not perfect. 50 - Average, one of those "nice" puzzles. 25 - Not horrible, but not a nice puzzle. 0 - Poor puzzle, either by design or solving. So there's nothing wrong with giving a puzzle a 75% vote. It will mean the puzzle can't have a 100% popularity, but then, hardly anything in life is considered perfect by everyone.JelgaJelga, not to put you or Griddlers.Net on the spot, but do you (you & the team) honestly think that we should have a 0% option?In my opinion, that sounds rather harsh/rude. True, I may not like something completely, but I'm sure I could find at least 1 positive aspect about it (whether it applies to puzzles or anything else in life).For example, I dislike spiders (even have arachnophobia). But I do know they eat bugs. So, that's why I can find them useful.Hopefully, you know what I mean. 0 (0 Voti)
 Terry Collins Post: 51 Data di Iscrizione: 19/02/08 Re: Popularity? Risposta 09/04/08 18.56 come risposta a Terry Collins. "Jeltje":The puzzle might get a 100% score after the first vote in the general lists, but to get into the Most Popular lists, a puzzle needs to have at least 12 votes. As for Multi's, you can only vote for them after you finished all parts. As for the meaning of the votes, there is a link on each puzzle page about how to vote.This it what it advises as a guide to voting:100 - Perfect puzzle, either by design or solving. 75 - Very good puzzle, but not perfect. 50 - Average, one of those "nice" puzzles. 25 - Not horrible, but not a nice puzzle. 0 - Poor puzzle, either by design or solving. So there's nothing wrong with giving a puzzle a 75% vote. It will mean the puzzle can't have a 100% popularity, but then, hardly anything in life is considered perfect by everyone.JelgaI didn't realise the first two points about the minimum 12 and the multi so thanks for pointing that out.Has a multi ever made it to the most poular list?I agree with wbennet about the 0% being overabused as some of mine own puzzles have double figure 100%'s and several 0%'s to go with it.I know different people have different opinions but are they that diverse? 0 (0 Voti)
 Jelga . Moderator Post: 1588 Data di Iscrizione: 31/01/04 Re: Popularity? Risposta 09/04/08 20.23 come risposta a Terry Collins. "jingai":Has a multi ever made it to the most poular list?Sure! They have their own list: Most Popular I know different people have different opinions but are they that diverse?It's been discussed here before in quite a few topics in this forum. There are people around that for whatever reason give low votes to most puzzles. Elimininating the 0% vote wouldn't change their behaviour I'm afraid, they would just continue giving the lowest vote available...Jelga 0 (0 Voti)
 Wayne Bennett Post: 213 Data di Iscrizione: 14/08/03 Re: Popularity? Risposta 10/04/08 1.37 come risposta a Terry Collins. "Jeltje":I know different people have different opinions but are they that diverse?It's been discussed here before in quite a few topics in this forum. There are people around that for whatever reason give low votes to most puzzles. Elimininating the 0% vote wouldn't change their behaviour I'm afraid, they would just continue giving the lowest vote available...JelgaBut with a 25%, at least they're giving some kind of score. A 0% is the same as NOT voting (or worse - brings the popularity down). 0 (0 Voti)
 Barb Bailey Post: 9 Data di Iscrizione: 21/06/07 Re: Popularity? Risposta 15/04/08 5.42 come risposta a Terry Collins. Just my two cents, but, I appreciate that I have the option of saying, "This puzzle was completely disappointing." I very, very rarely use it (I'll usually not vote in that case,) but sometimes it's just not a good puzzle. On the other end of the same stick, very few puzzles rate a 100 from me either. It has to be an excellent puzzle, that yields a beautiful picture (taking into account the size of the grid), that I look at and say "That could not be done any better in that size."Unless I'm completely misreading the submission guidelines, the staff checks submitted puzzles for solvability, and and checks that they don't run afoul of the prohibited subjects (flags, obscenity, duplication, total symmetry). I didn't see any indication that they prohibit puzzles on aesthetic grounds. Until that's the case, I prefer to have the option of using a 0% vote to say "This puzzle was ugly. Ugly to solve and ugly in result. I'm sorry I spent any time on it." 0 (0 Voti)
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