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 Hagit Maor Moderator Posts: 3073 Join Date: 6/28/02 G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/13/07 4:41 PM We are going to create a new system to rank your skills in griddling: G-Level.It will have 10 levels: G-1, G-2, ..., G-9, G-10.To complete a level you will need to meet specific goals or perform specific tasks.Every level requires better skills, motivation, and dedication. Examples: G-1:Solve 50 Griddlers:(*) 1 Griddler has to be at least 10x10(*) 1 Griddler has to have at least 3 colors G-2:Solve 200 Griddlers: (*) 10 Griddlers has to be at least 30x30 (*) 10 Griddlers has to be in color (*) 1 Griddler has to be a MultiGriddler (*) 1 Griddler has to have trianglesSolve 5 TriddlersPlaced your name on the map-----------------------------------------------------------------Every user who completed a Level will get a G-Level Icon. This icon will appear in the user profile's page and in View All Users list (by their names). Every day the Level system will check and update all users' ranks. In Home page we will have a link to a table of G-Level Winners. Winner is a user who succeeded to go up one level (from G-1 to G-2 or from G-7 to G-8 ). We don't know yet if the table will show the last 1 or 7 or 30 days. We'll have to check it for a few weeks.----------------------------------------------------------------- Before implementing the G-Level system we want to get ideas for tasks and goals from you. We opened this topic for that. Two "don't"s:Don't suggest a task like "solve all kiddlers" because we have new kiddlers every day.Don't suggest "solve at least one puzzle of This or That Author" because we want to keep the rank system unbiased. We will read your suggestion, but we don't promise to follow them, either because they are too complicated to program or too expensive for our resources (i.e.: too much stress on the database). 0 (0 Votes)
 Andreas Posts: 26 Join Date: 8/4/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/13/07 6:36 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Some level,create one puzzle 0 (0 Votes)
 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/13/07 6:48 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. While I'm not really into the competitive aspects of griddling, I do like to check my place on the bar graph This sounds similar.It would be nice if there were alternative goals for the levels that recognized quality over quantity. I know the points system is flawed because of the difference between validator and human solving, and also, according to what I've seen discussed today, that authors can pad the points of certain puzzles, but it would be nice if the system recognized the efforts of those who do fewer, harder puzzles. 0 (0 Votes)
 wax Posts: 125 Join Date: 12/31/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/13/07 7:41 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I like the idea of a g-level. maybe a timeed g-leveleg: every 150 000 points you get a level and every week there get lost a level so you have to keep active to maintain your level. 0 (0 Votes)
 Shineymom Simmons Posts: 14 Join Date: 4/25/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/13/07 8:19 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I think this sounds like a good idea-I would suggest keeping triddlers and griddlers seperate from each other.Some people love triddlers and hate griddlers and others love griddlers and hate triddlers.It would be a shame to force them to solve puzzles they hate just to progress in level. 0 (0 Votes)
 Alma Posts: 67 Join Date: 12/9/02 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/13/07 8:50 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Like Riddles and Games, or Endangered Species, things like that included on some of the levels.It might help spark some ideas, and explain some things, if people read the chat archive from today. We started discussing it at 11:40 in the log. 0 (0 Votes)
 irishunic Posts: 59 Join Date: 6/12/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/13/07 9:45 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. id say make sure there is something to tell people what they are missing for the next level or at least easy access to a standard posting of the level requirements. 0 (0 Votes)
 Kylie Harman Posts: 39 Join Date: 2/5/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/13/07 10:46 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I love this idea! It's a great way to encourage new members of the site and help experienced users explore new puzzles I see the levels as a kind of "suggested" progression from new user to experienced solver. I think the levels should use both number of puzzles and points. Not every level would need a minimum number of puzzles or a minimum number of points. The lower levels could be very diverse to introduce users to things they may not have tried on their own. How do you know if you like triddlers unless you've solved a few of them? At one point in the levels they should solve some of each type of puzzle. To recognize different tastes, for the top levels there could be options. There could be several choices for which path to take to reach the top level. There can either be a few broad options or a lot of specific options. It should be possible to reach the top level without having to complete every option (for those who don't like triddlers or don't create puzzles). Below are 13 possible options. If the top 4 levels were based on options, you may have to complete 2 options to advance a level. Triddler number option: Solve 600 triddlersTriddler point option: 4 million triddler points (possible by solving 6 most difficult puzzles and 4 times what is required to be in top 5%)Extreme Multi option: solve 3 extreme multis (71+ parts) - there are currently 21 of theseSmall Multi option: Solve 100 small multis (2-4 parts).Author loyalty option: complete 300 puzzles from the same author (there are 20 griddler authors with over 400 puzzles each and 2 triddler authors with the same) Puzzle Series option: Solve at least 25 puzzles each from 5 puzzle series. These can be series like caro-chef's Egyptian gods multis or GICaesar's Cities of Slovakia triddlers. There are also series from astrology, dreamtheater's fantasy alphabet, and 433's teddy bear alphabet. I'm sure there are other series. These may be a bit difficult to code, unless they have their own themes. Difficulty option: Solve 100 griddlers with over 1 million points.Kiddler option: Solve 2000 KiddlersPopularity option: Solve 100 puzzles with 90% popularity or higher. Author diversity option: Create 10 puzzles including at least one griddler, one multi, and one triddler. Author popularity option: Create a puzzle with popularity over 90% (with a minimum # of votes). Theme option: Solve 50 griddlers from the same themeTheme diversity: Solve one puzzle from each theme (or at least one puzzle from each of 50 themes). 0 (0 Votes)
 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/13/07 10:50 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Kylie's options variation sounds great! A nightmare to code, but great! 0 (0 Votes)
 Nadav Lavy Posts: 63 Join Date: 6/3/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 12:02 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. i like Kylie's options though it might be tricky regarding the popularity of puzzles since it changes with every new vote.Nadav 0 (0 Votes)
 Belinda Walker Posts: 129 Join Date: 5/7/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 12:17 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Whatever the goals are set at - could we get info in our profile page for our stats vs the goals.e.g. If a goal is to do at least 10 puzzles over 1,000,000 points, could we have a block under our profile showing:Goal: 5000 puzzles Completed: 5790Goal: 10 x 1,000,000 points Completed: 7so we knew where we have to focus our efforts to move up?ThanksBelinda 0 (0 Votes)
 Belinda Walker Posts: 129 Join Date: 5/7/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 2:10 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. We can't really set "goals" for things that are going to be changing - eg popularity of a puzzle (what happens if a puzzle changes from 91% to 89% - it wouldn't be fair for someone to drop back a level because of this. Also the people who vote 0% as an "I was here" statement would cause no end of havoc with this one).Similarly - we can't set goals based on rankings. They are too changeable. If you go away for a week on holidays you shouldn't have a ranking drop from a G6 to a G5.If the scale is set to number of puzzles / points goals it can be an open ended scale - and you keep any ranking that you achieve. In a couple of years time it may be necessary to increase the top level from a G10 to a G12 for example as people solve more puzzles.Would it be possible to have multiple sets of rankings or a code showing multiple levels G1T3A5 for example showing levels for griddlers, triddlers and authors separately (or would this just get too confusing)?This way if you create lots of griddlers, but don't solve many you may be G1A9, but if you solve lots and don't create any you might have G8A1.Just an ideaBelinda 0 (0 Votes)
 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 2:32 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. :twisted: Or...the goals could be totally hidden and one could griddle away in peace, then, surprise! All of a sudden one has been bumped up a level. And for those who like a mystery, a Forum section could be devoted to people exchanging notes until they could deduce the requirements :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: 0 (0 Votes)
 Belinda Walker Posts: 129 Join Date: 5/7/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 3:55 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Ooooh - evil, evil thought. :twisted: That would drive me completely NUTS. :banghead: 0 (0 Votes)
 Elina . Moderator Posts: 133 Join Date: 7/27/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 5:11 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I think the suggestion about variety of puzzles is good thing with the g-levels, especially on the first levels! Here is what I thought (apart from the chat): Solve one puzzle from each main theme (30x30, 50x50, b&w, multicolour, small multi, with triangles... etc) Answer to some of the riddlers on forum; Wiggles Riddles, TV Quiz, What do these puzzles have in common, Fantasy alphabet, Find the Angels, When did it happen. It follows the rule of being unbiased just barely but I think there will be more riddlers eventually and those would count too. Maybe these riddles would stay sticky on that part of the forum? Solve 100/200 etc minimalism. 0 (0 Votes)
 Nadav Lavy Posts: 63 Join Date: 6/3/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 9:15 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. it would be nice if separate ranks will be used for griddlers and triddlers i feel however authors should not be a separate rank but an alternate goal, for example when the goal is solving 10 griddlers of over 1 mil pts. each puzzle created will be counted as a solved one (and solving it will count again) this will give people motivation to become authors and the team can use the ranking system to encourage creating puzzles from a certain kind (b&w , multi's , etc.)Nadav. 0 (0 Votes)
 wax Posts: 125 Join Date: 12/31/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 11:42 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. m-freak levelsolve at least 750 minimalism griddlers 0 (0 Votes)
 bilbobilbo Posts: 56 Join Date: 10/8/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 12:32 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "bjwalke":We can't really set "goals" for things that are going to be changing - eg popularity of a puzzle (what happens if a puzzle changes from 91% to 89% - it wouldn't be fair for someone to drop back a level because of this. Also the people who vote 0% as an "I was here" statement would cause no end of havoc with this one).Similarly - we can't set goals based on rankings. They are too changeable. If you go away for a week on holidays you shouldn't have a ranking drop from a G6 to a G5.Basically, as a rule of thumb I think you rankings should not be allowed to change as a result of another user's actions (like popularity - changeable by voting or rank - changeable by other users being better/worse than you) This may also raise questions like "will I degrade once I stop fulfilling the conditions"? It should only depend on your actions - griddlers you solve, triddlers you solve, puzzles you create (this may be exception, as it depends on being accepted/rejected by the team, but I assume team is fair in their reviewing decision), posts in forum you write, etc ... 0 (0 Votes)
 bilbobilbo Posts: 56 Join Date: 10/8/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 12:35 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Well, actually, some people might have some G7 or G8 level instantly just as the system comes out (like some of those with 26000 or so griddlers in the top solvers, as they are likely to satisfy most "solve at least this and that" conditions. Wonder how far will someone instantly get 0 (0 Votes)
 Wayne Bennett Posts: 213 Join Date: 8/14/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 1:37 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. First of all, I want to know what will happen to those of us who have been here for a while now. From your origional post in the News section, I believe that right now I've achieved @ least the G2 status. What I'm saying is: does everybody start from scratch or, depending on things, you start somewhere else on the ladder?Some suggestions I saw that I don't like:A. time achievement: sometimes my computer is fast & sometimes it's slow (which I know this site experiences that too); so I don't think I should not reach a goal over something none of us have physical control over.B. # of puzzles by a certain author: I do puzzles according to several things (current mood, particular topics, size of puzzles, type (regular, mini, multi, triddler, # of colors, etc.); I don't have as much knowledge on this as others, but I'm pretty sure you have authors out there who cover the spectrum (making easy puzzles as well as those that'll give you a headache) - how would you determie what qualifies?C. a personal issue I (as well as others) have: I use a laptop that has NO middle mouse button, therefore making some puzzles hard/impossible to solve because I can't use the (X/O) solving possibility. Should I be denied certain achievements because of that? I mean, what if I'm a Level 2 & have done everything to bump me up to a Level 3 or Level 4 except for those types of puzzles - should I remain where I am for that issue?1 suggestion I do have is I think EVERYBODY should have their rank viewable on their personal profile (where only they can see where they are) & have like a little checklist/count down feature telling them what they need to do to go on. For example: if in order to pass Level 1, you need to solve 5 Minimalisms & you have solved 3, it'll tell you something like ("you have solved 3/5 Minimalisms"). This way we know which things have been done & which we need to work on to go up a level.HOWEVER, I'm hoping that those who come on here just for fun & don't care about the Levels won't complain as to seeing this listed in their profile.Another suggestion would to have a page (or however many) listing the people @ each Level. This way, you can talk to each other & see what worked for them to pass each Level.Once again, I think back to my prior paragraph in that I hope nobody finds offense to having their name listed - so we could have like an option box (like "Check here if you want to be listed in the Level Pages").Any comments? 0 (0 Votes)
 Diane Cormier Cormier Roebuck Posts: 15 Join Date: 3/12/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 2:21 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I like the idea of levels. I gives us something to strive for. Maybe this is already a given, but since I haven't seen it in writing, I'd like to say that it should be set up such that you cannot "jump" a level. Each level must have the prerequisite of completing the next lower level. So you couldn't have something like level 1 is solve 50 puzzles, and level two solve 20 puzzles of difficulty 100,000 or greater. If level 1 is solve 50 puzzles, then level 2 would have to be solve 70 puzzles, including at least 20 with 100,000 difficulty or greater. 0 (0 Votes)
 mark jones Posts: 29 Join Date: 4/8/07 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 5:47 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. i dont know if some one has said this yetbutyou could have vote oncecomment oncecreate a griddler/triddler/kiddler/multigridlermake a puzle worth over 100/1000/10000 point's 0 (0 Votes)
 mark jones Posts: 29 Join Date: 4/8/07 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 5:49 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. not going compklexed but the could be two lv's1 for authers and one for solver's ^^peopel like me would be lv 5 auters and lv2 solverswere as my mate would be lv 9 solver anbd lv1 auther((sorry for any spelling error's my google toolbar is down)) 0 (0 Votes)
 Terry Lee Mitchell Posts: 173 Join Date: 8/6/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 6:16 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Even though it isn't implemented yet, I already know that a high G-level will be impossible for me because I can't do large multi-colored puzzles, let alone multi-colored multis...These would drive me straight to the loony bin. 0 (0 Votes)
 mark jones Posts: 29 Join Date: 4/8/07 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 6:24 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. same here 0 (0 Votes)
 Elina . Moderator Posts: 133 Join Date: 7/27/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 6:29 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. We had many ideas in the chat yesterday, here is a list what was suggested then: solve multi coloured multi with at least 65 parts (ElinaMaria) solve a 100 part multi is a good one for a top (Jeltje) Solve a puzzle with over X hours midtime (hagitm)- For example: more than 1 hour, published at least 3 month ago take a part in a g-match (hagitm)- For example: be a G-Match winner - one of the Top 100 Finalists in any tournament (for a higher level) take a part in a intl, mini, micro meeting (hagitm)For example: - the meeting will have to be announced in the forum beforehand (jeltje)- pictures from that meeting (hagitm)there needs to be 3 or more users from different households (chefmomster2) have to be active in the forum to reach a level (jeltje)For example:- post a reply in specific forum topics, like: User Names, Where do you Griddle (hagitm)- Post at least 15 replies in the forum; must have replies in to the above mentioned topics and in Curiouser and Curiouser topic; must have at least one post in Personal Events (hagitm) arange a special chat for a level. Maybe an "all Spanish" chat, for instance. Some special interest. Or B&W puzzle lovers, or whatever. (chefmomster2)For example:- you'd have to make at least 5 sensible remarks during the chat (jeltje)- know how to use at least 5 different emoticons (jeltje)- They would have to contribute to the "theme" of the meeting. If I went to the Spanish chat, I'd have to speak Spanish for it to count. (chefmomster2)- Maybe organizing chats is for one level, attending three chats for at least 1 hour each could be another. (chefmomster2) solving at least a griddler a day for one month (SvantE)For example:- wouldn’t have to be a calendar month. Maybe just 30 days continuous (chefmomster2)- 7 days for one level. 14 for another (chefmomster2) having certain average points per puzzle [ElinaMaria)I'm sorry if I skipped a suggestion by someone, if so, feel free to add your own suggestion here on this topic. 0 (0 Votes)
 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/14/07 6:40 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "wbennett":C. a personal issue I (as well as others) have: I use a laptop that has NO middle mouse button, therefore making some puzzles hard/impossible to solve because I can't use the (X/O) solving possibility. Should I be denied certain achievements because of that? I'm by no means up to all the tricks, but I can tell you that you don't need a middle mouse button for X's and O's. In iGridd Applet you can get X's with shift-leftbutton and O's with shift-rightbutton. You can get rid of them with CTRL plus the same button. What's especially nifty is that if you mark up a whole lot of one or the other and decide they're wrong, or whatever, you can use Area and, e.g., CTRL-rightbutton and get rid of just the X's. In the old applet you can get O's with shift-rightbutton, and remove them with shift-leftbutton. 0 (0 Votes)
 Hagit Maor Moderator Posts: 3073 Join Date: 6/28/02 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 12:28 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Some comments to your suggestions:(*) There aren't going to be 3 routes of Levels (Griddlers, Triddlers, Authors). Only one with 10 levels. We don't know how hard it will be to program it, or how much resources it'll need. We start "small" - one route, 10 levels.(*) Popularity and mid-time are changing variables. Popularity is definitely out of the question. However, we may find a way to include puzzles with high mid-time: if there are at least ### (number of) solved records - the puzzle will be marked as G4, G5, G6, etc. You will know that if there are ### solvers - it is a "safe" puzzle to solve for this or that level.(*) Creating puzzles requires artistry - the skill of art. While some users have it in nature, others may never be able to create a good puzzle. It will become a frustrating task to both the users and the editorial team. We will consider adding this task for high levels (G9, G10). These levels will have other tough tasks (solving a 5-hour mid-time puzzle?).(*) Riddles - currently the riddles are for English Speaking users only. It isn't fair for those who can't solve them because of the language barrier. Moreover, the authors will have to be available every day, to check and "authorize" those riddles. They are with us today, they may not be around in future.(*) You won't start from scratch. What you've solved until the day the G-Level system is set will be the base of your G-Level.(*) Once you get a G-Level - you won't go down.(*) You won't lose your G-Level if you are inactive for a long time.(*) You won't be able to "jump" a level (unless you're superman. As far as I know he can solve thousands of puzzles within a few seconds).(*) It won't be a surprise. You will know what tasks are needed for every level.Hagit 0 (0 Votes)
 Sean Sullivan Posts: 66 Join Date: 2/12/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 2:18 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I'm still thinking about all of this. My first humble suggestion is that we come up with nifty names for the castes we are creating. It would be much more fun to say: "I just achieved 'aesthete' and am working on 'supercilious'" than "Made G5 and going for G6". Ok, the level names don't have to be pejorative but lets give our levels some human warmth.I think an encouragement for people to become more active in the site is admirable. I fear "ticket punching": Qualitative contributions being pushed aside in favor of Quantitative ones so one may proceed to the next level. Chats and forums become so cluttered with junk and tripe that they're not worth bothering with anymore. I've seen it happen and the result is, well, yucky.Hagit is spot on about the artistic talent of some of us. I love to play with words and language but skill with the visual arts has always eluded me. I greatly appreciate but cannot create. On the other hand, it wouldn't kill me to TRY. I worry about the poor vetters-of-puzzles who would have to wade through my crude attempts. Kind of like showing up in the emergency room in your less-than-best underwear.I do not see the superiority of emoticons over a well-crafted sentence . I guess it is kind of like learning a new language so one may be understood by illiterari (he said haughtily with :roll: ) What they have to do with griddlers :? I dunno. But perhaps :idea: they are better communication tools in a multi-language world. I will miss my plain text :cry: however.Finally, any super-griddler level must entail the successful completion of Miss Tress. This puzzle has been haunting me since I found it on the iGrid. Wowzer.Seanps: It isn't that I don't like the chats its that I work almost constantly from Friday morning to Saturday night. I've fired people for playing with the 'net on my time. No chat, no G-match. I am not the universe, however, so carry on with this one. And things can always change on my end. 0 (0 Votes)
 bilbobilbo Posts: 56 Join Date: 10/8/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 2:56 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "hagitm":(*) You won't be able to "jump" a level (unless you're superman. As far as I know he can solve thousands of puzzles within a few seconds).HagitTheoretically yes. Consider the original proposal with "place yourself on the map" on second level. Say you solve 10000 griddlers, 2000 triddlers, many of them multis, post into forums, etc ... but not put yourself into map - you're still on level 1 (you have not satisfied the map condition). Once you place yourself on the map ... you satisfy level 2. And level 3 and level 4 ... and level 5 maybe for example, as you have solved really much of the puzzles before putting yourself into map... so you jump instantly from 1 to 5 If the task will be done "right" you may be able to jump more than one level at time 0 (0 Votes)
 Elina . Moderator Posts: 133 Join Date: 7/27/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 7:28 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "FredTheYounger":Finally, any super-griddler level must entail the successful completion of Miss Tress. This puzzle has been haunting me since I found it on the iGrid. That one we won't have as a task. One of the first rules was no certain puzzle or no puzzles from certain author. I'm very much interested about these levels and it is a pity that people are finding more don'ts than do'es. There are many people around with good imagination, I'm sure of it. Please, bring the ideas here as well. Elina 0 (0 Votes)
 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 8:55 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Sean, I'm not into competitive griddling, but I *WANT* to achieve supercilious!!!'Course, I wouldn't want to move off of it again... How quaint! A G-level that one works hard to achieve then slacks off not to lose... (Emoticons are expressive in a picture=1000 words way.) 0 (0 Votes)
 Tim Meekins Posts: 14 Join Date: 9/15/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 9:21 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I like the ideas on here. Reminds me a lot of the Achievement system that Microsoft added to the Xbox 360. It's made playing videogames much more fun trying to get all the achievements in the games. 0 (0 Votes)
 bilbobilbo Posts: 56 Join Date: 10/8/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 1:39 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "ElinaMaria":"FredTheYounger":Finally, any super-griddler level must entail the successful completion of Miss Tress. This puzzle has been haunting me since I found it on the iGrid. That one we won't have as a task. One of the first rules was no certain puzzle or no puzzles from certain author. Still, if you set task like "at least one griddlers worth 150 000 000 points or more", only one puzzle from one author will satisfy it currently, so in fact if will equal to "solve Fawn" Although in time, some other puzzles may qualify for that too ... 0 (0 Votes)
 Wayne Bennett Posts: 213 Join Date: 8/14/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 3:39 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "ElinaMaria":We had many ideas in the chat yesterday, here is a list what was suggested then: take a part in a g-match (hagitm)- For example: be a G-Match winner - one of the Top 100 Finalists in any tournament (for a higher level)I know I've discussed this before, but how exactly can this be achieved given the fact that the times always fluctuate? For example, what if the only time I'm availabe to participate in a G - Match doesn't occur for 5 months. Should I be stuck @ a particular level over this 1 requirement? take a part in a intl, mini, micro meeting (hagitm)For example: - the meeting will have to be announced in the forum beforehand (jeltje)- pictures from that meeting (hagitm)there needs to be 3 or more users from different households (chefmomster2)Along with the G-Match issue, what about those unable to travel to these meetings. How exactly does this count as your ability to solve puzzles? arange a special chat for a level. Maybe an "all Spanish" chat, for instance. Some special interest. Or B&W puzzle lovers, or whatever. (chefmomster2)For example:- you'd have to make at least 5 sensible remarks during the chat (jeltje)- know how to use at least 5 different emoticons (jeltje)- They would have to contribute to the "theme" of the meeting. If I went to the Spanish chat, I'd have to speak Spanish for it to count. (chefmomster2)- Maybe organizing chats is for one level, attending three chats for at least 1 hour each could be another. (chefmomster2)Again, what does the ability to speak another language have to do with this site? Yes, I applaud those that are able to do that, but how does it help me solve puzzles? solving at least a griddler a day for one month (SvantE)For example:- wouldn’t have to be a calendar month. Maybe just 30 days continuous (chefmomster2)- 7 days for one level. 14 for another (chefmomster2)Another suggestion that may not be possible for everybody due to prior commitments, computer issues, natural disasters, etc..Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hurt the idea of levels. I just want to point out things that sound good @ first, but can be more difficut to achieve due to whatever reason(s). :dontknow: 0 (0 Votes)
 Wayne Bennett Posts: 213 Join Date: 8/14/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 3:45 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "glllop":"wbennett":C. a personal issue I (as well as others) have: I use a laptop that has NO middle mouse button, therefore making some puzzles hard/impossible to solve because I can't use the (X/O) solving possibility. Should I be denied certain achievements because of that? I'm by no means up to all the tricks, but I can tell you that you don't need a middle mouse button for X's and O's. In iGridd Applet you can get X's with shift-leftbutton and O's with shift-rightbutton. You can get rid of them with CTRL plus the same button. What's especially nifty is that if you mark up a whole lot of one or the other and decide they're wrong, or whatever, you can use Area and, e.g., CTRL-rightbutton and get rid of just the X's. In the old applet you can get O's with shift-rightbutton, and remove them with shift-leftbutton.Okay, but what about those who are unable to use the new Applet (whether it be computer issues, financial issues, etc.). Should those people be unable to achieve a particular Level over inability to solve a particular type of puzzle? You do know that not everybody has it on their machine - like me for example. :sad7: 0 (0 Votes)
 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 6:26 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "wbennett":"glllop":In the old applet you can get O's with shift-rightbutton, and remove them with shift-leftbutton.Okay, but what about those who are unable to use the new Applet (whether it be computer issues, financial issues, etc.). Should those people be unable to achieve a particular Level over inability to solve a particular type of puzzle? You do know that not everybody has it on their machine - like me for example. :sad7:I'm sorry. I should have put the part above about O's in the old applet first. But remember, X's and O's are only tools. They aren't actually necessary for solving. Most of the hardest puzzles have been around longer than the new applet. Just as it's harder to win the race if you don't have the fanciest new bicycle, it might be harder to win the level without the fancy new applet, but determination and application (of nose to puzzle) are more important. Plus you can print it out, or even copy it by hand onto graph paper, and solve using crayons, making notes, using theories with arrows and alternate colors, etc., then just copy the solved one back into the machine to get your level.JC (who lacks the sticktoitiveness to solve Fawn) 0 (0 Votes)
 Wayne Bennett Posts: 213 Join Date: 8/14/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 8:51 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. WHAT is the meaning behind the Levels?I understand & commend you for getting to know your fellow solvers. But some of us (like me for example) are coming into this discussion looking @ it from another angle. To give you an example of that, it's like participating in the Olympics. Yes, you may know everything about your fellow athletes, but does that information help you win a gold medal?So, we go back to what should be the FIRST question asked: What is the meaning behind the Levels? Is it your ability to solve puzzles based on different requirements? Is it participation in all features this site offers? Is it something totally different? 0 (0 Votes)
 Elina . Moderator Posts: 133 Join Date: 7/27/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 8:57 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "wbennett":WHAT is the meaning behind the Levels?How about if you told us what you would like to see as tasks rather than turning others down? Tell your idea about it. 0 (0 Votes)
 Sean Sullivan Posts: 66 Join Date: 2/12/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 9:49 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. My contribution of the day (I'm still thinking about all the other stuff): Drop by FredTheYounger's house for Sunday evening cocktails and a litle bite to eat. I need to demonstrate to Long Suffering Wife that I'm not the only addict out there !More on this later -- seriously -- as my plans gel over the next month or so.Best,Sean 0 (0 Votes)
 Jelga . Moderator Posts: 1589 Join Date: 1/31/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/15/07 10:08 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "FredTheYounger":My contribution of the day (I'm still thinking about all the other stuff): Drop by FredTheYounger's house for Sunday evening cocktails and a litle bite to eat. I need to demonstrate to Long Suffering Wife that I'm not the only addict out there !More on this later -- seriously -- as my plans gel over the next month or so.Best,SeanGreat! In my personal ranking system (which has nothing to do with the G-levels of the site), just this invitation is enough to move you up one level. Users who manage to trace your address by information given in these forums and actually do visit you for a drink, will reach the top 10 right away. Providing they send me a postcard with both your signatures (and your wife's) to prove you met. I have not been able to attend ALL meetings, but at least I do have postcards of the ones I missed and I want to keep up with that!JelgaPS - A t-shirt especially created for the occasion assures #1 position (or 10, depending which way we are counting) 0 (0 Votes)
 Sean Sullivan Posts: 66 Join Date: 2/12/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/16/07 1:29 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Aplogies to all if I seemed a bit condecending earlier; it was not my intention. Ok, maybe it was (but it was subconscious!). Anyway, is was not all that constructive.Jelga's post earlier (whom I shall now forever refer to as Jelga The Wise) got me thinking on a different track: We already have recognition of solvers and THIS SITE is about a lot more than that ability. It is a community which takes a LOT of work to keep together. She very well articulated that the levels should be tied to this whole community.For the levels, I see three factors for consideration: 1) Solving prowess; 2) Artistic/Operational contributions; and 3) Community Enhancement. We need not have a requirement from each part to move up each level but all three should be considered every few steps. The top levels should, of course, require significant contributions from each of these three factors.1. Solving prowess a. Have Griddler/Triddler mirrors? Have the requirement of "Do X in griddlers *OR* Y in triddlers or have requirements for both? b. Recognition is already given to # of puzzles and total points. Level enhancement should be designed to steer people to those puzzles which they normally would do if they are focusing on our established "Catagories of Recognition" c. G-Match. Should it go here or community enhancement?2. Artistic/Operational Contribution a. The puzzles are, of course, what makes this place go. There are, however, contributions to the functioning of this site which can also be recognized. How can we define and quantify those contributions? b. Creating puzzles is hard work (I hear). Not that I can't do it, its just I'm too scared to try. By requiring people (like me) to try, I believe -- with the help and support of those patient guides and vetters -- participants will gain a better appreciation of the site. 3. Community Enhancement a. Qualitative contributions to the forum (fora?) and chats. Need to define (like pornography: Can't define it, but I know it when I see it). b. Recognition that we've got to pull our noses away from the computer screens and get together to laugh, tell lies, play pranks, and touch humanity. c. New an exciting ideas (a wild card).The items above are only a start but should give a good foundation so we can move forward. I understand if others don't think any particular item in the triad should be considered and I may even have blantently forgotten something. Fill in, add, substract, evolve. It is only when we agree on the skeleton of what animal we are creating can we begin to start hanging the muscle and flesh.Again, apologies for my earlier note. I *WAS* begin superscillious. A level I can attain independent of griddlers .Best,Sean 0 (0 Votes)
 Belinda Walker Posts: 129 Join Date: 5/7/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/16/07 3:26 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. For the G-matches. if we limit it to the top 100 at the end of the competition, this will really limit progression between levels (and have lots of people progressing at the same time).It could also have the negative effect of people not doing G-match puzzles becuase they have achieved that goal and want to give others the opportunity.What if we set a minimum number of G-match puzzles within each competition (say 30 puzzles) to be solved within the 24 hours of release - even if you aren't in the top 100 solvers for the puzzle or ultimately in the top 100 for the competition. This would help to get around time zones and quotas. (There could still be a problem for people who can't access their computer that day of the week due to work committments.)Simlarly could participating in a number of chats be an alternative to going to a meet? Looking on the map there isn't another griddler within 1000km of my dot. (the lonely one just north-east of the middle of Australia). Some of the other dots are simlarly isolated.Belinda 0 (0 Votes)
 Hagit Maor Moderator Posts: 3073 Join Date: 6/28/02 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/16/07 9:19 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "FredTheYounger":I'm still thinking about all of this. My first humble suggestion is that we come up with nifty names for the castes we are creating... lets give our levels some human warmth.The graphic designer's initial thought was to differ the levels by colors - yellow, orange, green... brown, black - like in Martial Arts: Yellow Belt, Black Belt.However, we can personify them differently.Animals? - Elephant, Bear, Tiger, Lion?Flowers? - Only if Daffodil is G-10. ;-)Suggestions, please.Hagit 0 (0 Votes)
 Hagit Maor Moderator Posts: 3073 Join Date: 6/28/02 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/16/07 11:16 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "wbennett": arange a special chat for a level. Maybe an "all Spanish" chat, for instance. Some special interest. Or B&W puzzle lovers, or whatever. (chefmomster2)- They would have to contribute to the "theme" of the meeting. If I went to the Spanish chat, I'd have to speak Spanish for it to count. (chefmomster2)Again, what does the ability to speak another language have to do with this site? Yes, I applaud those that are able to do that, but how does it help me solve puzzles?Almost all our chats are in English. To bridge the language problem the suggestion simply meant - you can have a chat in any language. However, if you attend a chat in Spanish, for example, don't just "be there". Take an active part in the chat, meaning - speak Spanish for it to count.Hagit 0 (0 Votes)
 Melizabeth . Posts: 155 Join Date: 9/22/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/16/07 10:06 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I like the idea of attending chats in different languages (with only 5 messages to write for it to count that could move me 7 levels up :wink. I think putting a meeting as a requirement might be good idea, or sharing some personal info in the fora. But, in my opinion, such not-so-griddler-or-triddler-solving-connected requirements should only be put for the highest level. I agree, commitment to the site should be taken into consideration, but I believe the first several levels should only be connected to solving (eg. solve a number of puzzles of this or that kind, gain a number of points), and include the commitment gradually, like Level (e.g.) 5: take part in a chat/G-match or post at least two messages in the fora (at least one in All About You or Personal Events) ; Level 6: both requirements met, and so on. As for the names of the level, I think animals would be nice, as we can agree on some hierarchy (this might be a problem with flowers), colours are fine too. Or maybe the levels might have the names of the anniversaries (like, paper, silk, silver, wood, etc)? 0 (0 Votes)
 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/16/07 11:49 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "Melizabeth":As for the names of the level, I think animals would be nice, as we can agree on some hierarchy Level:1 bacteria2 protozoa3 slime mold4 plant5 insect6 fish7 reptile8 bird9 mammal10 god 0 (0 Votes)
 Shineymom Simmons Posts: 14 Join Date: 4/25/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/17/07 4:48 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. LOL"glllop":"Melizabeth":As for the names of the level, I think animals would be nice, as we can agree on some hierarchy Level:1 bacteria2 protozoa3 slime mold4 plant5 insect6 fish7 reptile8 bird9 mammal10 god 0 (0 Votes)
 Hagit Maor Moderator Posts: 3073 Join Date: 6/28/02 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/17/07 8:30 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "glllop":Level:1 bacteria2 protozoa3 slime mold4 plant5 insect6 fish7 reptile8 bird9 mammal10 godIf one day we add G11 I assume it'll be human. :notworthy: What will G12 be? :laughing3: Hagit 0 (0 Votes)
 bilbobilbo Posts: 56 Join Date: 10/8/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/17/07 5:09 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "hagitm":"glllop":Level:1 bacteria2 protozoa3 slime mold4 plant5 insect6 fish7 reptile8 bird9 mammal10 godIf one day we add G11 I assume it'll be human. :notworthy: What will G12 be? :laughing3: HagitSo if G12 is Hagit as you have said , what will be G13? I think we should make more steps and save the "god" and alike for lvl 20 or so ... thus ending the current lvl10 by some "tiger" or so ... 0 (0 Votes)
 Belinda Walker Posts: 129 Join Date: 5/7/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/18/07 2:19 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. What about using stones?eg diamond for G10, and ruby, sapphire, emerald, topaz, peridot, amethyst, garnet, opal, lapis lazuli in some order for the other nine.Belinda 0 (0 Votes)
 Wayne Bennett Posts: 213 Join Date: 8/14/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/18/07 2:37 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "ElinaMaria":"wbennett":WHAT is the meaning behind the Levels?How about if you told us what you would like to see as tasks rather than turning others down? Tell your idea about it.That is what we're all here to do: supply input as to what would be requirements.Personally, I feel that Levels should be based mostly on your solving puzzles. As I also posted, I feel that we should be "instructed" to participate in other ways (like forums, G-Matches, updating your profile by putting your location on the map, etc.).I'm the type of person that looks @ things from all sides before acting upon them. I wasn't meaning for it to sound like I was downplaying others' suggestions. I just wanted to make people aware that the idea might need some "tweaking" to be used so that it is a fair idea to be used by all & not something that can only be achieved by some. 0 (0 Votes)
 Wayne Bennett Posts: 213 Join Date: 8/14/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/18/07 2:57 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. :idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea:Why not make a huge list of things to accomplish & have point requirements beside each. This way, we can work on them in any order we want (to avoid people from being stuck on a particular level because of something they can't achieve). & have a different Level given to each 500 points (or something of that nature).So, we could have something like:Griddlers: you get points totalling 50% of the total point score for the puzzle (ex.: puzzle is 100 total points, you get 50 points upon solving)Triddlers: same as griddlersMinimalisms: you get 10 points for each puzzle solvedPlacing your location on the map: 100 pointsForums: 25 points for every post you makeG-Match: 500 points for every match in which you participateCreating Puzzles: you get points totalling 75% of the total point score for the puzzle (ex.: puzzle is 100 total points, you get 75 points upon acceptance to the site)Attending Meetings In Person: 1000 pointsThis way, for example, if I'm unable to participate in a G-Match for a few months, I'm able to achieve other tasks as well therefore constantly leveling up instead of being stuck on a particular level until I am able to the join the G-Match.So, do you think this is a better way to go about things? :?: Any comments would be appreciated! :thumbright: :idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea: 0 (0 Votes)
 Teresa James Posts: 100 Join Date: 2/2/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/18/07 3:54 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I like wbennett suggestion to putting points to everything and going up in level based on the amount of points you accumulate. 0 (0 Votes)
 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/18/07 4:06 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Well, it's not like rankings by solving puzzles and acquiring points are going away, right? So a G-level would have to be about something different in order to be meaningful.I, personally, *like* the idea of mixing the social and solving aspects. Also authoring, even though I haven't figured out that yet But surely someone who is good at solving could figure out how to create at least a little puzzle that would pass scrutiny. And it wouldn't bother me at all if there were some nigh on unattainable height of G-level reserved for those who can both create and solve really good griddlers.I also think it's okay for something on a level to be really hard to achieve, like the mini-meeting. I'm not sure exactly where Belinda is, but one of the places on this beautiful Earth that I'd most like to return to is Far North Queensland. And that can't be far enough from her to make a meeting somewhere along the way an impossibility. Though I do think that for it to be a real mini-meeting it would have to have at least one person at it who isn't real-world friends or relatives That would be cheating But just think how much fun it would be to be stuck on, say, level 5 for 14 months then all of a sudden get an opportunity to meet some folks and, zoom, up one goes!It should be hard to earn levels, at least past the first couple. They don't call 'em merit badges for nothing!!! 0 (0 Votes)
 isidor . Posts: 39 Join Date: 12/23/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/18/07 9:19 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. 1 - I accept with every word of wbennett.2 - I don't like Triddlers at all (and i tried them many times !!) . They bring me headache, also i understand from the Forum that there R many people who don't like them.We R here 4 fun, so why "to force" us 2 do things we don't like?3 - I'm against using Riddles in the G-level, because "our community" is multilingual,and every one comes from a different nation,different culture,and different country, so Riddle that will B very easy 4 one,can B very difficult 4 another.I'm against using them in G-Level.i can bring here example from myself : i solvedall the 90 griddlers of the Multi "When Did It Happen" , found the 6 letters, but could-not understand what was the "missing word" also i asked many clever-people around me who use to solve "Trivias" very easily. So hope you'll not insist on Riddles and atriddlers. Thank U. 0 (0 Votes)
 wax Posts: 125 Join Date: 12/31/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/18/07 10:41 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. putting g-match in the ranking would not be fair either, there are people who work all day, and even with the changing hours of the chat, they still would not be able to take part in the chat... 0 (0 Votes)
 Nadav Lavy Posts: 63 Join Date: 6/3/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/18/07 5:53 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. i love wbennett's idea !! 0 (0 Votes)
 isidor . Posts: 39 Join Date: 12/23/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/19/07 7:45 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. wbennett wrote:"Personally, I feel that Levels should be based mostly on your solving puzzles."I would say " Personally, I think that Levels should be based mostly on your solving puzzles ability "I really thought that puzzles are the purpose and target of this site; I read in this forum many strange ideas , nothing to do with ability of solving puzzles (!).So I want to bring here another suggestion:Grade - 7 you must say 1000 sentences in Chinese. :x Grade – 8 you must bring to Alaska a clean 100-carat diamond . :shock: Grade – 9 you must develop a real Black Orchid flower (Yes, I know that it can take at least 20 years ). :!: Grade – 10 you must arrive to the moon with a fresh tasty cake, shaped like a 50x50 griddler . (ten judges will wait there for you to taste the cake and to decide who brought the best one) :roll: 0 (0 Votes)
 wax Posts: 125 Join Date: 12/31/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/19/07 8:51 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. i agree with you isidor. i still like the idea of a g-level but it may not get to absurd and it must be possible for everyone to achieve those levels... otherwise it is only useful to a small group of puzzlers.but... there already is a sort of level when you look at the top puzzlers you can see in witch of the 20 bars you are... 0 (0 Votes)
 Belinda Walker Posts: 129 Join Date: 5/7/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/19/07 9:32 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Yes - you can see your own ranking in the bar charts (and in your profile in the applet.)But this doesn't tell you where everyone else is - unless they are in the top 60 (or just near your position if you are in the top 1000).I think that the purpose of the G levels is to try to get people to try something different such as:Try a triddler - you might like them (or not, but at least you will have had a go)Access the puzzles using the themes. This means that the puzzles in the "middle" get solved. People tend to solve a lot of little puzzles to move up the puzzle rankings, or solve lots of high point puzzles to move up the point rankings, or just solve the newer puzzles. However, there are a lot of good mid-range puzzles and the easiest way to get to something you would not have otherwise tried is by using themes.Try creating a puzzle. Just because something is a nice picture doesn't make it solveable. (Note to those people who vote 0% - have you actually tried creating a puzzle???)Actually talk to someone else using the site - so you aren't just a miserable sod tapping away at a computer.Have info in your profile or on the forum so you aren't a faceless entity.Its purpose is also to show people who have spent a ridiculous portion of their lives here. Let's give it a go...Belinda 0 (0 Votes)
 Alma Posts: 67 Join Date: 12/9/02 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/19/07 4:20 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I think you hit the nail on the head Belinda:"I think that the purpose of the G levels is to try to get people to try something different such as:"I agree with all of the things you listed. Plus for me, I like personal challenges, so it gives me something to aim for.It's not like we are forcing people to participate. If they don't want to try and move up in G-level, they can just go about solving as they always have. 0 (0 Votes)
 Kylie Harman Posts: 39 Join Date: 2/5/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/19/07 4:34 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Yes, I also think it's to encourage people to try something new. It's also to recognize accomplishments of users who haven't yet reached the top solvers lists (and it takes a long time to get there!) It's also a way to allow new users to get to know people from the community. 0 (0 Votes)
 John Posts: 46 Join Date: 2/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/20/07 12:14 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "hagitm":Some comments to your suggestions:(*) There aren't going to be 3 routes of Levels (Griddlers, Triddlers, Authors). Only one with 10 levels. We don't know how hard it will be to program it, or how much resources it'll need. We start "small" - one route, 10 levels.Personally, I would much prefer an award for accomplishments, rather than a ranking that continues from 1 to 10.For instance (and it has sort of been brought up in previous comments):Accomplishment: B & W Small would have multiple awards based on how many you have solved. The following would be a good start: 10, 25, 50, 100, 500There would be similar awards for the other griddler categories, and for triddlers. This way, people can get recognized for the accomplishments they have acheived, yet aren't kept from advancing because of a category they don't care for. This also allows for greater variation of new awards/goals. If we have a ranked system from 1 to 10 that encompasses everything, what happens if we want to modify a level to have a new requirement because of a new idea? We can't, without messing up everyone's current rankings. However if each category had it own's ranked system, you could add another category easily, such as "3-D griddlers". 0 (0 Votes)
4/20/07 12:43 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor.
"lostdog":
"hagitm":

(*) There aren't going to be 3 routes of Levels (Griddlers, Triddlers, Authors). Only one with 10 levels. We don't know how hard it will be to program it, or how much resources it'll need. We start "small" - one route, 10 levels.

Personally, I would much prefer an award for accomplishments, rather than a ranking that continues from 1 to 10.

For instance (and it has sort of been brought up in previous comments):

Accomplishment: B & W Small would have multiple awards based on how many you have solved. The following would be a good start: 10, 25, 50, 100, 500

There would be similar awards for the other griddler categories, and for triddlers. This way, people can get recognized for the accomplishments they have acheived, yet aren't kept from advancing because of a category they don't care for. This also allows for greater variation of new awards/goals. If we have a ranked system from 1 to 10 that encompasses everything, what happens if we want to modify a level to have a new requirement because of a new idea? We can't, without messing up everyone's current rankings. However if each category had it own's ranked system, you could add another category easily, such as "3-D griddlers".

To further clarify, I've attached a file of what I was thinking. It's similar to awards on Microsoft Flight Simulator X.

### Attachments:

 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/20/07 2:17 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Hard to be sure, but I'm beginning to think that the debate is breaking along gender lines: F want breadth and social, M want scorekeeping. Sound familiar? 0 (0 Votes)
 Wayne Bennett Posts: 213 Join Date: 8/14/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/20/07 4:47 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "glllop":Hard to be sure, but I'm beginning to think that the debate is breaking along gender lines: F want breadth and social, M want scorekeeping. Sound familiar?*laughing* Reminds me when me & my coworkers were comparing men & women.Men like short, simple, basic answers: yes, no, left, right, grocery store, bread, milk, chips.Women are more detail oriented: "I went shopping today for a pair of shoes. They had a sale & I found some topaz colored pumps with an adorable pair of Crocs. & they'll just go perfectly with my Prada bag I just had to buy when I bought that new babydoll dress for Mary's party. Did I tell you what she did with her hair?....." :sign5: :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3: 0 (0 Votes)
 Belinda Walker Posts: 129 Join Date: 5/7/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/20/07 5:08 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I have noticed the same at the office when comparing purchasing cars. Guess who made which statement:It's white with a grey trim, has a 6 CD stacker and it fits into a normal size car parking space easily.It uses 20 litres of petrol for 100km. The resale value should be \$xxx. It can give me 1 second updates on fuel consumption, calculate how far I have to go before I get to my destination, and tell me how much fuel I have left in the tank - and how many km this will get me...Belinda 0 (0 Votes)
 Agathi Posts: 64 Join Date: 9/18/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/20/07 6:45 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Hello All!Apart from the F vs M , I perceive two different trends in the conversation:1. The first one is based on various criteria that solvers must meet in order to proceed to the next level.2. The second one is rewarding the effort of solving when the solver has reached an amount of puzzles of a specific category.I find that these two trends are parallel and could easily co-exist. The second one is just an acknowledgement of the achievements of a player, whereas the first one is more competitive because it makes one want to progress to the next level.One should think though that our community is expanding and so is the number of puzzles in it. So, if we set rigid criteria (e.g. Level 1 = x multis, y 3-coloured, z kiddlers) for the ranking, we might be called to change them in the near future.Happy Griddling,Agathi 0 (0 Votes)
 Annet Posts: 1 Join Date: 10/18/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/21/07 11:40 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. hello to all,First of all, let me introduce myself. I am Annet, I make griddlers for three years or so and though I usually don't participate in the forum I want to give my opinion to this.I like the idea of the levels because it is a goal to work to.If you want to make it a system for everyone, I don't think there should be any 'social' achievements , like attending the chat or come to a mini-meeting or the like. Most of the users of the site are not participating in the forum or any social stuff, most of them want to solve puzzles for fun, and that's it. Not that I think the social stuff is stupid, but it will always be a select few who do it. And besides, I think there is a nice community here that doesn't need a boost from a system like that. If people 'have' to post it will only be stupid non-interesting post and the forum will not be so nice anymore. (and you cannot possibly say it has to be a contributing post because who is going to judge on that?)What I do think is a good idea is to add various goals. In that way people can explore the various aspects of griddlers. I liked many of the ideas of kysuebr.Maybe it is indeed a good idea to work with options. Like there are 10 options for level 1 and you have to complete 5 to get it. In that way you can always add options if new ideas come up. (And probably in the beginning they will)Maybe in this way you can let everyone follow their own path. (and maybe also include the 'social aspect' if you like)Like, for level 1:Options:1. complete ## griddlers2. complete ## triddlers3. complete ## kiddlers4. complete ## griddler of at least size ...5. complete ## griddler of at least ... colors6. complete ## griddler of at least ...points7. do one griddler of each main theme8. participate in chat9. participate in forum (I don't like this last two, but it could be)And then you have to complete 5 of these tasks or so.(of course I don't know about the numbers)Best wishes,Annet 0 (0 Votes)
 barb Posts: 27 Join Date: 6/19/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/22/07 6:39 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. One thing would like to know is this going to be something everyone could do during the week, or will there be set times?If this is going to scored at the end of the week, possibilities that I can see are:a set number of griddlersb point value of griddlersc theme griddlers--either general or bit more specificd author griddlers--list a couple of different authorse size/category of griddlersf griddler id--like doing one in first thousand griddlers, etc.Some could be combined but also like the idea of doing past favorites. 0 (0 Votes)
 Belinda Walker Posts: 129 Join Date: 5/7/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/22/07 7:01 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. No - I don't see it as a competition with timeframes.It shouldn't depend on how fast you can solve a puzzle, or how many times a week you can get to a computer.Levels should be the result of effort and persistance, not speed and frequency.I like the idea of multiple paths though.i.e. for a level 100,000,000 points or 3000 puzzles.Or how about combining the two?100,000,000 points with at least 2000 puzzles or3000 puzzles with at least 50,000,000 points?How hard do we want to make the levels?I agree that we should make the first two or three "easily" attainable. (What would equate to 10 hours puzzling for the first level in terms of points / puzzles?)Whatever would equate to:Level 1: approx 10 hoursLevel 2: + 20 hours = 30 hoursLevel 3: + 30 hours = 60 hoursFor the first three levels sounds good to me. (Not the time actually spent solving the puzzles - but numbers set based on approximate site stats.)10 hours might be 2,000,000 points or 40 puzzles (with a max number of minimalisms - which is why a points + number of puzzles system might work).Can we get some sort of stats on average times for a puzzle to get some sort of equivalent number of puzzles / points and round them up to the nearest 100 or 1000?After that we need to make it more difficult.The last two or three should be really nasty. :twisted: Belinda 0 (0 Votes)
 JC Posts: 194 Join Date: 11/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/23/07 2:40 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I have to admit, I think I don't get it. As originally proposed, as a combination of all the features of this site, it made sense. That is, I understood why G-level was being proposed, how it would be of benefit, and how it would be different. As a conglomeration of numbers of puzzles done in some form or other, I just don't.I used to drop by to do a few griddlers now and then. Then I was ill for awhile a few months ago and did next to nothing but sit in my chair and solve triddlers, and I've been doing a bunch of interesting multis since. I had a technical problem around then and registered to be able to use the forum (thanks for the answer!) so I only have stats accruing from then. Still, I'm already in at least the top 25% of both Griddlers and Triddlers by both puzzles and points. That makes me think that there are an awful lot of people registered who don't do a lot of 'em.Maybe the thing is really just to add the bar graphs to the iGridd applet for those who aren't signing in through the main site? (I don't care about absolute rank but I like the bar graphs ) They show accomplishment and progress even for beginners.The secret to progressing is the part where you really want to see the picture and stay up a couple extra hours to finish 'em. I just don't get why it's worth all the programming nightmares for the generous team to create G-levels if they're just going to be another way of counting puzzles/points. We have the ranks, the graphs, and the Goals topic for touting the accomplishment of suject/author/gridsize isolates.Okay. I'll stop. I think I'm getting repetitive 0 (0 Votes)
 becklenay Hayden Posts: 32 Join Date: 1/7/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/23/07 1:03 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. "Naomi_Azzet":Like, for level 1:Options:1. complete ## griddlers2. complete ## triddlers3. complete ## kiddlers4. complete ## griddler of at least size ...5. complete ## griddler of at least ... colors6. complete ## griddler of at least ...points7. do one griddler of each main theme8. participate in chat9. participate in forum (I don't like this last two, but it could be)And then you have to complete 5 of these tasks or so.(I really like the idea of having a choice of options for lower levels. But maybe as a person progresses they have to do more of them, say for a level 5 or 6 you have to do 7 or 8 of the things listed and for the final level you have to do them all? :twisted: To get to level 9 or 10 it should be about more than points and puzzles.Just a thought. Beck 0 (0 Votes)
 becklenay Hayden Posts: 32 Join Date: 1/7/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/23/07 1:21 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Just an add on to the above. How about ten different areas of criteria? Possible areas could be solving and creating griddlers, triddlers, and multis (right there is 6 areas) plus forum, chat, g-match, and face-to-face meetings (for a total of ten). To get to level 1 you have to meet one of them. Then up the ante in each area for level 2 and you have to complete 2 tasks, and so on for each of the levels? That way a person has options but to reach the final level you have to be a well rounded active member of the Griddler's community?Beck 0 (0 Votes)
 Piotr . Posts: 36 Join Date: 6/12/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/24/07 9:35 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. In my opinion new G-Level system could be something like system used in RPG games. :arrow: You get points for solving puzzles but not current points but points based on size of puzzle, difficulty and mean time (different bonus for puzzles with mean time = less than 30min, 0.5-1h, 1-2h, 2-4h, 5+h). Some equation should be created. So you would get cumulative points for solving any puzzle (griddlers or triddlers).:arrow: Next step would be points for creating puzzles. And small amount of points when someone solve you puzzles.:arrow: Points for putting your position on map, for forum posts, for attending chat meetings, g-match, live meetings:arrow: points from special events or riddles. For example first 100 people who solve some puzzle with riddle and post answer will get bonus pointsThere could be requirements that you posted but in addition to this fixed amount of points will be required. This system gives possibility to add more than 10 levels when needed. What is you opinion about this ?? 0 (0 Votes)
 Amy Watson Posts: 3 Join Date: 3/12/04 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/25/07 5:53 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I think alot of these suggestions are really good but I really do not like the idea of having to travel to a meet. I have 5 kids, just moved to Florida, and every last penny we have that is extra goes to the kids seeing their grandparents in Ohio. So basically if I travel to a meet or organize one here it would still cost money. I'm sure most parents will agree that to take money away from the household or kids for a website is something that would not happen. I do really like to have the social options more than the number of points/puzzles. There is already the top solvers system, why make another level system the same.Maybe one rank would have organize a chat and have atleast 3 members attend.dolphin 0 (0 Votes)
 Amber Smith Posts: 18 Join Date: 7/24/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/26/07 1:54 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I set up my laptop so that I can push both "mouse" buttons down simultandously to simulate the middle button for the sole purpose that I can use both X and O when solving the larger griddlers. Maybe this could help?"wbennett":"glllop":"wbennett":C. a personal issue I (as well as others) have: I use a laptop that has NO middle mouse button, therefore making some puzzles hard/impossible to solve because I can't use the (X/O) solving possibility. Should I be denied certain achievements because of that? I'm by no means up to all the tricks, but I can tell you that you don't need a middle mouse button for X's and O's. In iGridd Applet you can get X's with shift-leftbutton and O's with shift-rightbutton. You can get rid of them with CTRL plus the same button. What's especially nifty is that if you mark up a whole lot of one or the other and decide they're wrong, or whatever, you can use Area and, e.g., CTRL-rightbutton and get rid of just the X's. In the old applet you can get O's with shift-rightbutton, and remove them with shift-leftbutton.Okay, but what about those who are unable to use the new Applet (whether it be computer issues, financial issues, etc.). Should those people be unable to achieve a particular Level over inability to solve a particular type of puzzle? You do know that not everybody has it on their machine - like me for example. :sad7: 0 (0 Votes)
 wotsit gizmo Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/10/03 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/27/07 12:22 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I like most of the suggestions, but the ones about attending a meeting or chatting get me worried. What about people who dont go out? Or have trouble socilising? I have trouble talking to(even online) and meeting people(you have no idea how much courage and attempts its taken to get this written). I dont want to penalised just because I have problems. I doubt I'm the only person. Also what about those with disabilites? Or those on a low income? Are they going to have to suffer as well? 0 (0 Votes)
 Agathi Posts: 64 Join Date: 9/18/05 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/27/07 7:14 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Dear wotsitgizmo,I don't think this is a punishment site , although some of the puzzles make us suffer until we solve them. 8) Anyway, I tend to agree with griddlers stating that in person meetings shouldn't be prerequisites for G-levels. Meetings are all about having fun with people that share the same hobby (or in this case addict), not just being there in order to go up in griddlers hierarchy. Some people cannot afford the costs of a meeting, cannot leave the place of work, or even,cannot communicate adequately in a foreign language. These obstacles should not hinder them from going to the next level.Agathi 0 (0 Votes)
 Belinda Walker Posts: 129 Join Date: 5/7/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 4/27/07 7:25 AM as a reply to Hagit Maor. Maybe a "seperate" system could be set up for the face to face meets?Eg Have the G levels. And also have "rewards" in a format similar to the one that lostdog was proposing. But don't link the two.They would work sort of like boy scout merit badges.Attend a mini-meet in a particular place and get a logo attached to your profile. A different logo for each meet.Worth a thought?Belinda. 0 (0 Votes)
 jane bray Posts: 5 Join Date: 4/20/07 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 5/16/07 10:23 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. When counting finished puzzles to ascertain rating, maybe it should be griddlers or triddlers, not one or the other. Some people prefer one type over the other, but would still meet the requirements in other respects. 0 (0 Votes)
 Noita Posts: 3 Join Date: 2/26/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 5/23/07 9:37 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. I am very enthousiastic about the new ranking system, I understand that this is a stimulation for a lot of people to spend more time @ griddlers, but I do hope that the old ranking system (list by points and # puzzles) stays, it also motivates me, and I'm "working" ;) hard to get in the top 60.I have skipped through the pages and have read the following suggestion: take a part in a intl, mini, micro meeting (hagitm)I really wish that will not be part of one of the G levels, because very sick people, like myself cannot travel a lot and it is already hard enough to get up every morning. So I hope the G-levels quota stay @ the internet. 0 (0 Votes)
 Barak Aharoni Posts: 54 Join Date: 2/1/06 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 7/17/07 1:41 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. when will the g-levels start? (if they will...) 0 (0 Votes)
 Hagit Maor Moderator Posts: 3073 Join Date: 6/28/02 Re: G-Level: Rank your Skills Answer 7/17/07 6:17 PM as a reply to Hagit Maor. We evaluated the ideas that the users submitted in here and decided to rethink the plan. In the meantime we grant users for special tasks differently, like the certificates given to the 3rd G-Match Tournament winners (tounament #1 and #2 winners will get certificates too... one day ).Hagit 0 (0 Votes)